offer

......trust

You could ask for a copy of the email.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

they talk over the phone only. not e-mails

Send the Seller an anonymous Letter asking them if their broker has presented them an offer...you will find out soon enough if they did not, by 1) broker fired 2) broker calling you to talk

Technically, offers are presented in writing.

Although we real estate people often talk to each other over the phone, a follow up in writing (which is usually done via email) needs to be sent because oral contracts aren't worth anything in New York real estate.

If you are dealing with a buyer's broker, then ask your broker to send an email and to cc: you.

If you are dealing with the seller's broker and have made a verbal offer, we've found the source of the confusion.

A verbal offer is not a "real" offer and doesn't need to be presented. So try again: Send the seller's an email with your offer -- the broker will then have an obligation to present that -- and ask to hear the seller's response within, say, 72 hours.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

Apt_Boy, definitely a thought, but I would assume that if the offer wasn't presented it's because it is low, not because no offers are being presented. There may have been other offers, so you'd have to include your price, which removes anonymity.

I'm dealing with a seller's broker, I made an offer via e-mail a couple of days ago and didn't hear back. I follow up and get the comments from the broker that she advices me to increase the amount to have a better chance. I told her that this was what I was willing to pay, I'm still waiting.

Put these dealings in writing. Email is perfect for the bidding process. Follow up calls are fine. But contacting the seller directly if he/she is represented by a broker might creep out the seller. I for one would not welcome such a call were I selling. I have a broker for a reason. If you have something more than a vague concern--something substantive that gives you cause to believe the seller's broker is not communicating your offers in good faith to the seller, then contact the broker's supervisor/manager to discuss it.

Interesting, front_porch: "...a follow up in writing (which is usually done via email) needs to be sent because oral contracts aren't worth anything in New York real estate."

So could a buyer be bound if a bid is made in writing, but further research serves to change the buyer's mind? I know some RE attorneys will recommend language in the email to avoid that problem.

front_porch -- if a buyer approached you initially without a broker (you get all of the commission) then came back with the offer with a broker (you have to co-broke) how would you feel? Would you be less likely to deal, or wouldn't it matter? What do you think the general vide is? I have done almost all of my purchases without a buyers broker, but for a particularly difficult sellers broker, I am thinking of bringing in a rep. Thoughts (honestly)?!

that's how I feel. I just don't know if the broker is slow or just plays games.

tenemental: So could a buyer be bound if a bid is made in writing, but further research serves to change the buyer's mind? I know some RE attorneys will recommend language in the email to avoid that problem.

All bidding negotiations are just that: negotiations. Nothing is a contract until in writing and subscribed to (signed) by both parties. A written bid is no more binding on anyone than an oral one because it is not a contract--a bid is merely a proposal whether written or oral. Writing it down just keeps things from getting confused or lost in translation. Nothing AT ALL binds a buyer to ANYTHING until the buyer AND seller sign a contract.

As for introducing a broker late in the process: when you sign into an open house, the selling broker asks you to list your broker, if any, for a reason. If your broker had nothing to do with introducing you to the property, practice is that they don't get a commission. It's the way it's done in NYC. Exceptions may exist, but this is the general practice.

ioanna,

Resumbit your offer again with the dollar amount you are comfortable with, but include a dead-line. Also include some financial details about yourself (downpayment, liquid assets after close). This will ensure the realtor takes your offer seriously.

The Broker has probably sensed you are not experienced in making offers and trying to take advantage of your emotions. Its up to you whether you want to be played or play the game...

kylewest -- is that really true? from front_porch's statement, he seems to think that at any point prior to contract it is OK. I am talking NYC here -- same brokerage . . .

Re: when a broker can step in, I wasn't commenting from a legal standpoint above--only a common practice/expectation view. I really don't know what the official rules are on this. Any brokers care to weigh in with REBNY's rules?

Okay, questions one by one:

Ioanna -- if you submitted by email you have every right to get a response. Ask the seller's broker whether "up your offer" was the seller's statement, and if the seller has a counteroffer. It's against the rules to not present any offer that comes in in writing, even if it's low.

Mark-- if a buyer came in without a broker and then a broker materialized, it wouldn't change my vibe one bit. First I'm REBNY, so it's not supposed to, but secondly, I'm self-interested, and I want to make a deal for my seller and move on. To a good agent, the business is not about fighting for the last scrap of commission pie, it's about moving pies in volume. Many of us think a honorable reputation is one to do that.

However, I have repped buyer clients who brought me in on a deal mid-process, and the seller's broker will sometimes kick and whine right up until closing (there is one particular firm that is especially difficult about this, I think they have classes). But you know what? That's part of my job, to deal with attitude.

I'm female, BTW. ("ali" is short for "alison"--I would invoke Ali McGraw, but that betrays my age, I think ;>.)

Tenemental -- actually, buyers are not usually bound in NYS until signed and countersigned contract, but if you wanted to pull enforcement of terms earlier, I believe emails have weight. I know oral agreements don't. A cassette tape of me confirming to you that I'm going to sell you x apartment at Y price has no weight at all.

Kylewest -- while I agree with you that it's "the way it's done" that you should sign your broker in on first contact, the Department of State insists that you don't have to -- you are a consumer who can be represented by who you want. Yes, the listing broker may fight you on it, but you do have the right.

I have been led to believe that a written offer might have some weight even if it has not reached the stage of signed and countersigned contract -- but I am not an attorney so I'm happy to stand corrected if you are.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

Thanks, ali -- sorry for the gender swap! As noted I am thinking about pulling in a broker to deal with a challenging seller's broker and weighing the pro's (someone to deal with the hassle) and cons (annoying the other broker). No offer has been made yet, so we are still early enough for it to be kosher, i think . . .

I made my offer by e-mail last week with all the financial info. I'm sending daily e-mails to have an answer, then the broker calls me back without an answer just to tell me that I should increase. I made it clear that I just want an answer (turn down my offer or counter offer). I'm just getting tired with the broker.

I'm not sure what kind of legal liability an unwritten bid could generate for a potential buyer since any deal for over $1000 (or is it $10,000?) and any deal involving real estate must be in writing and subscribed to (signed) by both parties, or it is in violation of something called the statute of frauds and is essentially non-existent in the eyes of the law. To turn around and sue someone who made an oral offer and withdrew or changed it before or even after it was accepted would probably go nowhere.

If the offer is in writing, but not signed, it is also in violation of the statute of frauds and cannot be a contract. And even if it were signed, it is not a contract that the seller could sign back and deem binding. It is an offer, nothing more. Something to consider and respond to. There are no terms and details in it. It cannot stand on its own. So even a written bid would be difficult to somehow convert into the basis of a lawsuit for an ordinary residential real estate transaction.

If I'm off base on this (I'm outside my regular zone here), I'd be very curious to know how these basic rules may play out differently. Malraux?...