Need to Renegotiate Agreed Sale Price - How?

Btw, strangely enough, this building has 479 units, but very few sales of the 3 bed/2bath side. Seems like the people stay a long time. Doorman has worked there for 22 years. Spoke to some folks coming in and out, and they all have been there 20 years or more. Wow.

What borough is this? I'm curious. And the appraiser is not for the seller to trust--it's to guide you in what to offer. In the current market, I would not be looking to set any major records in a buiding so far as price/sq.ft.

The proper procedure, once you decide on what price you are comfortable with, is to withdraw your offer, explain why, and make a new offer with an explanation of how you arrived at it. You could skip all this explaining, but the seller may be baffled and just tell you to forget it. I believe more transparency is a good thing whenever possible. This should all be in writing (email is fine) from your broker to theirs with you being cc'd and first approving the wording.

If there were other bidders at the door, I doubt the seller would have patiently waited for you to sign the contract for 2 weeks. 10 days is about the absolute maximum a contract typically is out. If a buyer hasn't signed by then, it is a good indication that there is likely a problem. So the seller isn't likely to be shocked by whatever you choose to do.

Hi

Its in Queens (certainly there are no 3Bed/2bath apts for 380 or 295k in Manhattan!).

I just found out yesterday they are showing it again. So I just realized I should withdraw the offer asap. Else they will use it to say "we have an offer for 380, so if you are interested, you'll need to at least match it..."

I hate this. I am a numbers guy. We had a situation earlier where the seller was also asking 395. Based on comps, etc I thought the place was worth 350-360. We went in at 335 expecting to negotiate up to 355 or so. Instead they were "insulted" and didnt even counter. But if we had bid what we were willing to pay, they would have countered and we would have to go higher.

How do peoplet get these "bargains"? I've seen places sell at 30% discount to ask. Did they start with an offer that was 50% off ask? Wow.

Let them be insulted. Think of it like buying a car - be prepared to walk away, say, "Well, if you change your mind in 6 months, let me know."

The days of saying, "Pretty please sell me your apartment" are gone. (Thankfully.)

I am preparing to do this:

-withdraw original offer
-send a letter citing the other 3 sales in the building
-new offer of ... 350? That is still 35k more than any apt has ever sold for in this building.

Does that sound reasonable? I know, you think maybe I should go even lower? I'm thinking:

315 highest sale ever
25 for renovated kitchen
10 for appreciation
---
350

Should I spell it out like that, or just offer the 350. How long should we give for them to decide?

I think, roykirk1, you need a lesson in bravery. You asked how people get good deals. By being good negotiators, knowing what they want and what they're willing to pay for it, which if you're good is less than it's worth.

You sound like a bundle of nerves and lack-of-confidence, but in this market you have the upper-hand.

If I were you, however, since you asked, I'd just withdraw my offer with no reason, have the real estate agent communicate it just like that, tell him / her you just don't think it's right for you and it's overpriced, you found something you like better for far cheaper.

I'd also start working with a new real-estate agent since yours let you bid so much higher than the comps.

What is "10 for appreciation"? How about "10 for depreciation"?

And why start with the "highest sale ever" and work your way up?

How about the "lowest recent sale" and work your way down?

I like the way you laid it out (with the explanation). Be sure to write a courteous note explaining why (and why you missed out on these points earlier). Note that you need a good reason for change - not a good reason for the new price. Be prepared to walk if they say "no".

I'd give them more time rather than less - a week to get over the idea that they now have no offer, and another two weeks to realize the other open house didn't yield any meaningful results either.

I think you are being very generous with your $25 for kitchen if it is just a low-end job. Also, NYC RE (particularly the boroughs) has most definitely not gone up 10% since Dec. '07. I think I would site the average price per square foot for the sales over the last 2 years in the building, note the comparable at $315K, and then make a final offer of whatever you feel is warranted. The time for back and forth on this sale I think has past. Maybe leave yourself $5K-10K to negotiate upward so the seller can get the last word and feel like they "won." But from what you say this unit seems terribly overpriced and I wouldn't be knocking myself out over it.

So far as how long to leave the offer open, I think 72 hours is extremely fair. After all, at this point I assume there is a deal sheet, your basic finances have been provided to the seller in a summary so they know how solid you are or are not, and after 2 weeks I assume you did your due diligence.

lol. Yes, steve, I am not very brave! Hope they are not reading this board. Haha. Part of it is the 12 months saga of trying to find a new home. We have had some trials and tribulations (last minute new, higher offer from new buyer... coop board grudge vs seller that killed another deal, etc.)

Strangely, the seller's agent is the SAME as the one representing the people that were "insulted" previously. I think that had an impact in our original offer. Else I might have started with a 10-15% discount from ask, which is normal in this market. Since we had genuine interest, we did not want them to just brush us off.

The 10 for appreciation is actually for the new carpet they put in (which we hate and would rip out, but hey, to them its a wonderful new carpet).

Thanks Eric... I was going to give them 72 hrs to reply. But I agree, maybe a week. I see lots of other apts listed at 395 that wait 30-45 days and drop to 380 asking. And still not sell.

But the theory is that the "good" ones sell fast, right?

The braver and more confident you act, the more afraid they will be of losing YOU. Look, you're fine where you are now, I assume. Why kill yourself if you don't absolutely positively need to move?

If you overpay you will be stuck with it forever. This is a business deal. Do you see Jamie Dimon crying over spilled Bear Stearns?

Roykirk1,

Do whatever you need to do to sleep at night, but don't be surprised if the seller doesn't bite.

You want to take 10% off an accepted offer, not because your attorney has found something that seriously impinges the building like the roof falling in, but because you ran comps AFTER bidding?

You have the cart before the horse here. I'd find another place you like, run comps on it, and then start a bidding process that you feel that you can get behind.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

Roykirk1,

You must treat this as a buisness transation, both financially and emotionally.

If you feel this is a place you can live for 5+ years in and are comfortable with the payments then go for it. Once you crunch the numbers, what is the difference in monthly mortgage payments?

Basically, do not do this unless you are 'stone cold' and can walk away with no emotion.

If you are taking out a mortgage the only comp that will matter for an appraisal is the 5/15 closing. The mortgage underwriting and appraisal processes have gotten much tougher. Underwriters (and by implication Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac) understand that the world is different. Comps from even a few months ago (i.e. pre Bear Stearns) are not so meaningful.

Send in your own appraiser - if they won't let him in, then walk.

Get a new real estate agent.

Start again.

The world is large.

I just withdrew the offer. 380 was slightly above our budget anyway, to be honest. Esp with interest rates up the last few weeks. I will compose a letter explaining why and apologizing for the delay.

As for comps... I did ask my broker if this was right price to bid. She did not give me actual comps, but did say she saw many new apts coming on at this price and above. The other agent also told her there were other apts in contract around this price. However when I asked for details of what other apts are selling at this price... none were forthcoming.

Ali, I know, I feel bad. Though my attorney raised many caution flags about the building, actually. That was part of the reason for the delay as well. They refinanced last year, and ended up with 4 million in cash on reserve. But why? I know they plan to renovate the garden, the lobby, both elevators and part of the garage. Surely that will not cost $4 million?

And they took an interest only loan for 10 years, while paying a big penalty (600k) to get out of the old one. What happens if interest rates are at 8 or 9 percent in 2017? I was trying to find out if this is normal.

Well I'm glad we helped. Become a member of street easy and you can have access to prior sales data. It's worth the investment, you don't have to rely on agents.

"when I asked for details of what other apts are selling at this price... none were forthcoming."

One more sign.

contact urbandigs.com ask if he handles your area or if he knows a good broker.

FYI penalties are the rule for underlying co-op loans.

And don't write a letter - this is business. You have to learn how to make rational, unemotional judgments, else next time you're going to get yourself into the same mess.

Just walk - it's your right.

And get a new agent!

Wow. In under 4 hours, a buyer looking for a year, who hasn't seen anything they liked in their price range for months, has been convinced by the pundits to withdraw an offer and be prepared to walk. I am a newcomer here, but I find this scary.

By the way, penny stock XKQD is poised to fall!!!!! Big time!!!!! SELL SELL!!! NOW!!!!!

jrd, would you have recommended differently? in your opinion, should roykirk have kept the deal? if so, why?

Nobody watching this thread really has enough information to provide sound advice. As the poster said, he doesn't information on the condition of the "comps" which doesn't really make them comps, and he has been looking for a year and none of the potential comps turned up as something they were interested in. So unless this potential buyer has radically changed where he is willing to live, none of the "comps" that sold were something that this buyer found interesting. So why exactly are they comps? And why would every one be so free to suggest that he should just walk away from the only interesting prospect he has seen in months?

Lol. jrd, I think I was leaning this way already. Just needed some confirmation that I'm not crazy for wanting to back out, as well as some ideas on HOW to approach it. Once I saw the other numbers, I felt terrible. Is it rational for me to be setting a new all time high sales price by over 20%?

As for the year long search... its actually "only" six months of searching time, as we wasted six months with a crazy coop board who had a grudge against the seller and punished them by dragging out the process then ultimately rejecting us (for no good reason).

The AGRO answer, which will work: Cross out the agreed upon price on the contract, write in the price you want to pay and initial, send to the seller's attorney with a deposit check, and see if they bite. Have your broker call the other broker to let them know what and why you are doing. Very aggressive but I think its the best shot you have of getting your price. Your seller may be more desperate than you think and without any other offers may just take it. If you try and go back to the drawing board without showing how serious you are, he/she may try and take the high road and say no way, even though the best thing for him/her to do is sign the contract. Takes some you know what, but if you are willing to let it go if they are unreasonable, its your best shot. *covers head and waits to get bombarded by the masses*

Please don't interpret my comments as advice on how to proceed in this matter. My only purpose is to call into question the advice of others. If you want better advice, you will need both post substantially more detail on your deal and to filter the response with your own best judgement. Best of luck on your quest for home ownership.

It has never been a seller's market and never will be. So withdraw the offer and renegotiate without worrying about insulting anyone. Let the seller know that you have revised your offer. If they don't like it they can sell it to someone else. Your broker will be happy to convey your revised offer to the seller's broker if he/she wants to earn the commission. Feel free to change the broker if he/she refuses to cooperate.

I like dmag2020's answer.

Business is not a place to feel. Church is.

And get a new broker. urbandigs.com