My question is, are there any rules around what can qualify as a limited common element? Usually its a private space that can be accessed by a limited number of unit owners, but that the whole building has an interest in maintaining (e.g. a terrace that also serves as the building's roof). My building has several storage units in the basement, which are individual tax lots. A separate storage unit... [more]
My question is, are there any rules around what can qualify as a limited common element? Usually its a private space that can be accessed by a limited number of unit owners, but that the whole building has an interest in maintaining (e.g. a terrace that also serves as the building's roof).
My building has several storage units in the basement, which are individual tax lots. A separate storage unit is listed as a limited common element, so no taxes or common charges are paid for this space, but it is not different than any of the other storage spaces in any other sense. Is this legal??? It is not located adjacent to any apartment units.
Seems to me like there are some guidelines around what a LCE can be -- I imagine if I'm a developer and plan on keeping one of the units, I can't just declare my apartment to be a single closet and the rest of my apartment is a "limited common element". Right?
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Response by NWT
over 9 years ago
Posts: 6643
Member since: Sep 2008
Look in the condo declaration to see which unit(s) have access to the LCE storage space. They should have more Percentage of Common Interest than identical units without access to the LCE.
The Attorney General, together with all the buyers, would catch an attempt to give a disproportionately-small PCE to any one unit.
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Response by mh330
over 9 years ago
Posts: 105
Member since: Oct 2006
The condo declaration (from the Office of the Registrar) frustratingly mentions no LCE specifically, just in general terms, and there are no included floorplans either. The unit with the LCE access has much higher percent common interest than other units, but its also much larger than the other units. However, the PCI is definitely not in line -- the unit is 3x an average unit in size in livable area, plus a sizeable terrace and basement storage, yet PCI is slightly less than 3x that of an average unit.
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Response by NWT
over 9 years ago
Posts: 6643
Member since: Sep 2008
There's nothing to be done now. The over-allocated units, if they've got lots of money to spend, could sue somebody or other, only to be told by the judge that they knew or should have known what the PCI allocation was, when they bought.
There's also some subjectivity or leeway in how PCI is allocated, and when. E.g., when my co-op was formed 25 years ago, the one-bedrooms were more valuable per square foot than the two-bedrooms, so the share allocation was different then than it would be now.
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Response by mh330
over 9 years ago
Posts: 105
Member since: Oct 2006
Fair enough. But I think we're less concerned about the PCI allocation, and more about the actual space. The thinking is, if you're not paying taxes or common charges on this space, and its no different in location or physical attributes than the storage areas of the other owners (who do have to pay taxes and common charges), then this isn't really a limited common area, but rather a common area, which can be used by all residents.
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Response by 30yrs_RE_20_in_REO
over 9 years ago
Posts: 9882
Member since: Mar 2009
I guess my questions is "Who is using it now and where are their rights to use it defined in the Offering Plan?"
Look in the condo declaration to see which unit(s) have access to the LCE storage space. They should have more Percentage of Common Interest than identical units without access to the LCE.
The Attorney General, together with all the buyers, would catch an attempt to give a disproportionately-small PCE to any one unit.
The condo declaration (from the Office of the Registrar) frustratingly mentions no LCE specifically, just in general terms, and there are no included floorplans either. The unit with the LCE access has much higher percent common interest than other units, but its also much larger than the other units. However, the PCI is definitely not in line -- the unit is 3x an average unit in size in livable area, plus a sizeable terrace and basement storage, yet PCI is slightly less than 3x that of an average unit.
There's nothing to be done now. The over-allocated units, if they've got lots of money to spend, could sue somebody or other, only to be told by the judge that they knew or should have known what the PCI allocation was, when they bought.
There's also some subjectivity or leeway in how PCI is allocated, and when. E.g., when my co-op was formed 25 years ago, the one-bedrooms were more valuable per square foot than the two-bedrooms, so the share allocation was different then than it would be now.
Fair enough. But I think we're less concerned about the PCI allocation, and more about the actual space. The thinking is, if you're not paying taxes or common charges on this space, and its no different in location or physical attributes than the storage areas of the other owners (who do have to pay taxes and common charges), then this isn't really a limited common area, but rather a common area, which can be used by all residents.
I guess my questions is "Who is using it now and where are their rights to use it defined in the Offering Plan?"