Visited two this evening. First up: 375 Riverside Dr. #6B $1,745,000; Maint. $2060 Coop, 3 beds 2.5 baths; No sq.ft. stated URL: http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/184513-coop-375-riverside-dr-manhattan-valley-manhattan Traffic: Very light. Saw no other visitors, and there wasn't even a sign-in sheet. The key selling point for this combination unit is the view. The apartment faces northwest, with... [more]
Visited two this evening. First up:
375 Riverside Dr. #6B
↓ $1,745,000; Maint. $2060
Coop, 3 beds 2.5 baths; No sq.ft. stated
URL: http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/184513-coop-375-riverside-dr-manhattan-valley-manhattan
Traffic: Very light. Saw no other visitors, and there wasn't even a sign-in sheet.
The key selling point for this combination unit is the view. The apartment faces northwest, with most rooms pointed toward the river. As a bonus, the curve of Riverside Drive keeps the view open from the north-facing windows, which also look out on the very handsome facade of 380 RSD. 375 itself is a nice building, and the common areas are well-maintained.
The situation inside #6B is pleasant, if unexciting. Two apartments have been skilfully merged; the end-product has the flow of an opened-up classic six. For entertaining, the central living/dining area would benefit from another foot or two of length, but it's adequate.
The two main bedrooms are generous, and both have walk-in closets; the master has two river-facing windows and an en-suite bath. Note that although the master suite occupies the corner, it doesn't have the impact of a corner bedroom because the closet and bath take up the whole north side.
The third BR, which is positioned beyond the kitchen like a maid's room, is narrow but would be fine for a child/guest/home office/au pair.
The river-view kitchen and north-facing, windowed baths are modern and in good condition. Although appliance snobs might consider upgrading some equipment, the whole apartment is basically turnkey. The powder room and washer/dryer in the small hallway leading to the third bedroom are nice amenities. There are some pet smells from a cat and a turtle; nothing a good airing-out wouldn't solve.
#6B has been on the market nearly six months, which means Elliman's exclusive will probably expire soon. Three price cuts $from 1.95MM haven't been enough. I don't know the area around 110th Street well enough to comment on the current price. It looks like the family has three kids and wants more space; I couldn't tell how old the sons who share BR2 are, so it's hard to guess the motivation level. Anyway, it's a nice apartment that probably missed the market by a few months, so it's worth watching.
[less]
Elliman maintains two listings for this apartment: one calls it a 3BR; the other says there are four bedrooms. I'm not sure what the double listing is supposed to achieve, other than tricking various search engines. Anyone shopping for a big, pre-war coop probably knows what a classic seven is. The fourth "BR" is actually decent-sized; it just happens to be located off the kitchen, which makes it a maid's room in the archaic parlance of the trade.
For that matter, all the rooms in #1C are quite big, and the ceilings are high, so the space has some potential to dazzle. The side-by-side living room and dining room are especially impressive. Two of the bedrooms are corners, and the master has an en-suite bath. Well, sort of. It actually has an en-suite shower/toilet space and a separate shaving closet - all quite awkward and in need of gutting.
While we're renovating, the hall bath probably needs updating too. It looks maybe Reagan-era, and it hasn't aged well. The kitchen is a total loss: absolute junk, and poorly laid out. Also, the kitchen has been "opened up", but in a half-hearted way that leaves it communicating only with the hall. Weird. The space is ample, but it currently has the flow of a dormitory lounge area and access to the dining room is awkward.
All the interior flaws of #1C are fixable, and with plumbing in at least four distinct zones, there's room for an architect to get creative. The one intractable problem here is elevation. #1C is one floor above the lobby, so it's not a ground-floor unit. Unfortunately, the slope of WEA and 99th is such that the north side of 789 sits much closer to the ground than the south side, and 1C is at the rear north corner of the building. As a result, the living room and dining room are quite close to street level, and the second bedroom is nearly at eye-level to pedestrians on 99th Street. Most of the other rooms face ugly brick walls, although one window in the master BR has a pleasant garden view.
789 is a good, stable building with a lot of nice families (including some relatives of mine), and it will be improved by upcoming upgrades to elevators and comon areas. Elliman might argue that the low elevation is reflected in the price. Of course, they would have said the same thing when the listing opened, absurdly, at $2.8MM. At $2.4MM, it's still pricey for an estate-condition apartment on 98th Street that's basically at street level.
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by bramstar
almost 18 years ago
Posts: 1909
Member since: May 2008
Hi, West81st--
Great reporting, as always. I went to see 375 RSD 6B back when it first came onto the market and have to say, I wasn't terribly impressed. Since there is no formal dining area, they've had to squeeze a table into the already rather small living room. Also, that third 'BR' is indeed a maid's room, and not a big one at that. This apartment should not be listed as a 3-BR--Elliman ought to know better than to pull that BS.
Although the apartment appears in decent condition, I do have a pet peeve with folks who choose to drop the ceilings to install high-hat lighting, as these folks have. Anyone who values the look and feel of traditional pre-war high ceilings will feel a bit cramped on walking into this apartment, as all the rooms (with the exception of the second BR) have lowered ceilings to accommodate the recessed lighting. Not a deal-breaker, of course, but would have to be ripped out unless you're into low ceilings. Also, I too noticed a bit of a pet smell--turtle does not concern me but the cat does, big time. Cat urine in wood (if that is the case--I don't know for certain, obviously) is extremely difficult to cure, smell-wise.
And, a note about the view--because the apartment is on the 6th floor, it does not quite get that glorious river view that many river-seekers (such as myself) are yearning for. Even one floor higher would do it--here you're still skimming the trees.
So, all-in-all, a nicely kept, small 2BR apartment but nothing to write home about, in my opinion.
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by West81st
almost 18 years ago
Posts: 5564
Member since: Jan 2008
Bramstar: Good points. For anyone seeking pre-war charm, #6B will be a disappointment; and while the ceilings aren't horribly claustrophobic, they certainly aren't high either. As for the living/dining area, the dimensions of the space are OK; unfortunately, a lot of it has to be kept clear as a passage from one end of the apartment to the other, so the functional space is much smaller.
You're right about the view too, especially since the Parks Department seems to be feeding the trees a steady diet of growth hormones. When I was a kid, river views started on the fourth floor. Then again, I'm reaching the point where you can calculate my age by counting rings.
Thanks for the tip about cat urine. I'm allergic to their fur, so my experience with their pee is limited.
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by bramstar
almost 18 years ago
Posts: 1909
Member since: May 2008
West81st-- Re: the cat pee--it is generally more of a problem in estate apartments, where there has been major neglect. I have seen wood flooring have to be pulled up because of it. Probably not as likely to be a major concern in a home with a young family, though one never knows, of course.
Your point about the trees is a good one--we looked at a 9th floor apartment but I have to say, I was eying a few very robust-looking trees below and actually wondering whether possibly someday they might be able to creep up into the view :)
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by Riv_Drive
almost 18 years ago
Posts: 156
Member since: Mar 2007
West81st - I went to the 375 open house too. I think the apartment would show better had it been staged better (or at all). The red couches do nothing for the "curb appeal" of the apartment. I thought the building was OK and the maintenance was low. I agree though - the building facade is nothing compared to 380 across the street. Unfortunately, I missed the combo unit that is now in contract in that building. That price was dropped a decent amount too. Did you see that one?
the bedrooms seem kind of small, but good for kids.
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by West81st
almost 18 years ago
Posts: 5564
Member since: Jan 2008
Riv_Drive: I missed 380 RSD #2L too. For what it's worth, I would have difficulty paying over $2.5MM for an apartment on 110th and Riverside with no view. "Fabulous arched windows" are cool, but what's the point if they face a back alley and a fire escape? As great as the apartment itself looks, the reaction to it will always be, "Yes, but..."
As for 375 #6B, I think it IS staged, in the sense that a high percentage of the family's junk has been bundled into duffles and hidden in the closet of the master bedroom. Considering the presence of teenage boys, that's probably the best they can manage after so much time on the market. I agree that a little extra effort would go a long way, since the interior of the apartment is pretty nondescript.
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by West81st
almost 18 years ago
Posts: 5564
Member since: Jan 2008
Riv_Drive: I missed 380 RSD #2L too. For what it's worth, I would have difficulty paying over $2.5MM for an apartment on 110th and Riverside with no view. "Fabulous arched windows" are cool, but what's the point if they face a back alley and a fire escape? As great as the apartment itself looks, the reaction to it will always be, "Yes, but..."
As for 375 #6B, I think it IS staged, in the sense that a high percentage of the family's junk has been bundled into duffles and hidden in the closet of the master bedroom. Considering the presence of teenage boys, that's probably the best they can manage after so much time on the market. I agree that a little extra effort would go a long way, since the interior of the apartment is pretty nondescript.
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by West81st
almost 18 years ago
Posts: 5564
Member since: Jan 2008
Sorry about the double post.
I'm going to try to see 10 West 66th #20D today. The building is of interest because it has a lot of listings and it's a fairly typical postwar in a great location that rode the market up and seems to be falling just as fast.
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by West81st
almost 18 years ago
Posts: 5564
Member since: Jan 2008
Postscript to the review of 789 WEA #1C: Elliman just chopped another $200K off the asking price, to $2.2MM.
That's $600K off the price since March, and it may need to come down more.
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by joepa
almost 18 years ago
Posts: 278
Member since: Mar 2008
Broker probably read and agreed with your analysis.
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by starfish
almost 18 years ago
Posts: 249
Member since: Jul 2007
I usually give people the benefit of the doubt on pricing, but 789 WEA starting at $2.8 was a bad idea. We live in (and love) the hood, but they were a little nuts with that opening price. Probably won't go for the "new" price either.
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by Riv_Drive
almost 18 years ago
Posts: 156
Member since: Mar 2007
Anybody see this one at 370 RSD? They've had a TON of openhouses...no budging on the price though...
And here's the second:
789 West End Avenue, #1C
↓ $2,400,000; mt. $2067
Coop, 3 beds 3 baths; No sq.ft. stated
Traffic: Light.
URL: http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/194211-coop-789-west-end-avenue-upper-west-side-manhattan
Elliman maintains two listings for this apartment: one calls it a 3BR; the other says there are four bedrooms. I'm not sure what the double listing is supposed to achieve, other than tricking various search engines. Anyone shopping for a big, pre-war coop probably knows what a classic seven is. The fourth "BR" is actually decent-sized; it just happens to be located off the kitchen, which makes it a maid's room in the archaic parlance of the trade.
For that matter, all the rooms in #1C are quite big, and the ceilings are high, so the space has some potential to dazzle. The side-by-side living room and dining room are especially impressive. Two of the bedrooms are corners, and the master has an en-suite bath. Well, sort of. It actually has an en-suite shower/toilet space and a separate shaving closet - all quite awkward and in need of gutting.
While we're renovating, the hall bath probably needs updating too. It looks maybe Reagan-era, and it hasn't aged well. The kitchen is a total loss: absolute junk, and poorly laid out. Also, the kitchen has been "opened up", but in a half-hearted way that leaves it communicating only with the hall. Weird. The space is ample, but it currently has the flow of a dormitory lounge area and access to the dining room is awkward.
All the interior flaws of #1C are fixable, and with plumbing in at least four distinct zones, there's room for an architect to get creative. The one intractable problem here is elevation. #1C is one floor above the lobby, so it's not a ground-floor unit. Unfortunately, the slope of WEA and 99th is such that the north side of 789 sits much closer to the ground than the south side, and 1C is at the rear north corner of the building. As a result, the living room and dining room are quite close to street level, and the second bedroom is nearly at eye-level to pedestrians on 99th Street. Most of the other rooms face ugly brick walls, although one window in the master BR has a pleasant garden view.
789 is a good, stable building with a lot of nice families (including some relatives of mine), and it will be improved by upcoming upgrades to elevators and comon areas. Elliman might argue that the low elevation is reflected in the price. Of course, they would have said the same thing when the listing opened, absurdly, at $2.8MM. At $2.4MM, it's still pricey for an estate-condition apartment on 98th Street that's basically at street level.
Hi, West81st--
Great reporting, as always. I went to see 375 RSD 6B back when it first came onto the market and have to say, I wasn't terribly impressed. Since there is no formal dining area, they've had to squeeze a table into the already rather small living room. Also, that third 'BR' is indeed a maid's room, and not a big one at that. This apartment should not be listed as a 3-BR--Elliman ought to know better than to pull that BS.
Although the apartment appears in decent condition, I do have a pet peeve with folks who choose to drop the ceilings to install high-hat lighting, as these folks have. Anyone who values the look and feel of traditional pre-war high ceilings will feel a bit cramped on walking into this apartment, as all the rooms (with the exception of the second BR) have lowered ceilings to accommodate the recessed lighting. Not a deal-breaker, of course, but would have to be ripped out unless you're into low ceilings. Also, I too noticed a bit of a pet smell--turtle does not concern me but the cat does, big time. Cat urine in wood (if that is the case--I don't know for certain, obviously) is extremely difficult to cure, smell-wise.
And, a note about the view--because the apartment is on the 6th floor, it does not quite get that glorious river view that many river-seekers (such as myself) are yearning for. Even one floor higher would do it--here you're still skimming the trees.
So, all-in-all, a nicely kept, small 2BR apartment but nothing to write home about, in my opinion.
Bramstar: Good points. For anyone seeking pre-war charm, #6B will be a disappointment; and while the ceilings aren't horribly claustrophobic, they certainly aren't high either. As for the living/dining area, the dimensions of the space are OK; unfortunately, a lot of it has to be kept clear as a passage from one end of the apartment to the other, so the functional space is much smaller.
You're right about the view too, especially since the Parks Department seems to be feeding the trees a steady diet of growth hormones. When I was a kid, river views started on the fourth floor. Then again, I'm reaching the point where you can calculate my age by counting rings.
Thanks for the tip about cat urine. I'm allergic to their fur, so my experience with their pee is limited.
West81st-- Re: the cat pee--it is generally more of a problem in estate apartments, where there has been major neglect. I have seen wood flooring have to be pulled up because of it. Probably not as likely to be a major concern in a home with a young family, though one never knows, of course.
Your point about the trees is a good one--we looked at a 9th floor apartment but I have to say, I was eying a few very robust-looking trees below and actually wondering whether possibly someday they might be able to creep up into the view :)
West81st - I went to the 375 open house too. I think the apartment would show better had it been staged better (or at all). The red couches do nothing for the "curb appeal" of the apartment. I thought the building was OK and the maintenance was low. I agree though - the building facade is nothing compared to 380 across the street. Unfortunately, I missed the combo unit that is now in contract in that building. That price was dropped a decent amount too. Did you see that one?
...talking about this apt.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/181095-coop-380-riverside-drive-morningside-heights-manhattan
the bedrooms seem kind of small, but good for kids.
Riv_Drive: I missed 380 RSD #2L too. For what it's worth, I would have difficulty paying over $2.5MM for an apartment on 110th and Riverside with no view. "Fabulous arched windows" are cool, but what's the point if they face a back alley and a fire escape? As great as the apartment itself looks, the reaction to it will always be, "Yes, but..."
As for 375 #6B, I think it IS staged, in the sense that a high percentage of the family's junk has been bundled into duffles and hidden in the closet of the master bedroom. Considering the presence of teenage boys, that's probably the best they can manage after so much time on the market. I agree that a little extra effort would go a long way, since the interior of the apartment is pretty nondescript.
Riv_Drive: I missed 380 RSD #2L too. For what it's worth, I would have difficulty paying over $2.5MM for an apartment on 110th and Riverside with no view. "Fabulous arched windows" are cool, but what's the point if they face a back alley and a fire escape? As great as the apartment itself looks, the reaction to it will always be, "Yes, but..."
As for 375 #6B, I think it IS staged, in the sense that a high percentage of the family's junk has been bundled into duffles and hidden in the closet of the master bedroom. Considering the presence of teenage boys, that's probably the best they can manage after so much time on the market. I agree that a little extra effort would go a long way, since the interior of the apartment is pretty nondescript.
Sorry about the double post.
I'm going to try to see 10 West 66th #20D today. The building is of interest because it has a lot of listings and it's a fairly typical postwar in a great location that rode the market up and seems to be falling just as fast.
Postscript to the review of 789 WEA #1C: Elliman just chopped another $200K off the asking price, to $2.2MM.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/211258-coop-789-west-end-avenue-upper-west-side-manhattan
That's $600K off the price since March, and it may need to come down more.
Broker probably read and agreed with your analysis.
I usually give people the benefit of the doubt on pricing, but 789 WEA starting at $2.8 was a bad idea. We live in (and love) the hood, but they were a little nuts with that opening price. Probably won't go for the "new" price either.
Anybody see this one at 370 RSD? They've had a TON of openhouses...no budging on the price though...
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/238968-coop-370-riverside-drive-manhattan-valley-manhattan