Had an appointment at a local business today on W38th street between 5th and 6th, and it happened to be Dominican Parade. The block had a number of plaftorms blasting music at unsafe levels, far, far exceeding 100 Db based on my iphone app. Basically, nightclub levels of music or above. This is a level that can cause hearing loss and other health problems. Platforms were also producing... [more]
Had an appointment at a local business today on W38th street between 5th and 6th, and it happened to be Dominican Parade. The block had a number of plaftorms blasting music at unsafe levels, far, far exceeding 100 Db based on my iphone app. Basically, nightclub levels of music or above. This is a level that can cause hearing loss and other health problems. Platforms were also producing ground-shaking, unsafe low frequency vibrations, which are known to cause miscarriages and cardiovascular issues.
Inside the walls of the local business on W38th street where I had my appointment, my iphone registered an average sound level of 85Db and peak levels of 110Db. I believe the legal limit is 42Db indoors.
The business called police numerous times, with no results. I also called 311 three times with this information and they opened tickets with NYPD for me. However, the tickets were immediately (within a minute or two of receipt) closed without an investigation. After the 3rd ticket someone from NYPD called me to explain that there is a parade that has been "permitted" and therefore I don't have grounds for the complaint. I said I had no problem with the parade and with music at safe levels, but asked whether they were aware the level of noise was unsafe, and asked what was the limit of noise on the permit. The officer could not answer this, but said each platform had to have a limit and had an assigned officer enforcing it. When I walked back through the block, I noticed there were no officers nearby any of the platforms, or anywhere on the block. There were cops standing at the end of the block (which was closed off), but they had no idea whether there was a limit and who was supposed to be enforcing it. They seemed near deaf, could barely hear me when I was screaming at the top of my lungs.
So basically, NYPD did not enforce any limits on the level of sound and did not investigate my three detailed complaints. Any thoughts? Where do I look up these permits to check what has been approved?
I see in the code that each permit indeed should specify the maximum level of sound:
https://codelibrary.amlegal.com/codes/newyorkcity/latest/NYCadmin/0-0-0-6027
Each permit issued pursuant to this section shall describe the specific location in which such sound device or apparatus may be used or operated thereunder, the exact period of time for which such apparatus or device may be operated in such location, the maximum volume of sound which may be employed in such use or operation and such other terms and conditions as may be necessary, for the purpose of securing the health, safety, comfort, convenience and peaceful enjoyment by the people of their right to use the public streets, parks or places for street, park or other public purposes, protecting the health, welfare and safety of the inhabitants of the city, and securing the peace, quiet and comfort of the neighboring inhabitants.
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Response by 300_mercer
over 2 years ago
Posts: 10539
Member since: Feb 2007
Krolik, Sorry to hear about your unpleasant experience. When it comes to pre-authorized parades, police is mainly concerned by vandalism, violence, and other bad behavior (look up Puerto Rican day parade and related issues in the past). No one enforces the sound limits if there were to be any as it is temporary in nature. The police doesn't even enforce sound level for a block permit by a restaurant for outdoorparty with amplified music. And this is Dominican Day parade. Who would mess with that? Police feels lucky if there are not major incidents resulting in arrest of some one.
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Response by 300_mercer
over 2 years ago
Posts: 10539
Member since: Feb 2007
I know this as we had a substantially issue on our block by a restaurant party. Police only stepped in when they thought someone may get injured (property was never in danger). I spoke to the senior police official who was there and he explained what they really care about.
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Response by steve123
over 2 years ago
Posts: 895
Member since: Feb 2009
Historically speaking, if a noise complaint is the worst thing to come out of Dominican Parade then it was a pretty good year.
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Response by 300_mercer
over 2 years ago
Posts: 10539
Member since: Feb 2007
Exactly.
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Response by 300_mercer
over 2 years ago
Posts: 10539
Member since: Feb 2007
And no one would dare to deny a permit to Dominican Parade next year even if there is some violence.
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Response by Krolik
over 2 years ago
Posts: 1369
Member since: Oct 2020
>>>No one enforces the sound limits if there were to be any as it is temporary in nature.
Lol they do charge money for permits to have a sound amplification device at the event. According to the application form, the permit fee goes towards costs enforcement...
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Response by Krolik
over 2 years ago
Posts: 1369
Member since: Oct 2020
>>>Historically speaking, if a noise complaint is the worst thing to come out of Dominican Parade then it was a pretty good year.
LOL. I get the point.
But it is NOT just an "annoying noise" complaint. It is a public health and public safety issue. All those people on and near those platforms must be deaf after this. And anyone passing by.
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Response by 300_mercer
over 2 years ago
Posts: 10539
Member since: Feb 2007
Trust me. You are not the first one to notice very loud noise, which is detrimental to health, from amplied music in parades. The police are there and they hear it first hand.
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Response by Krolik
over 2 years ago
Posts: 1369
Member since: Oct 2020
Those officers were miserable. They did not know that there existed a limit and who would be responsible for enforcing it. (Based on my desktop research, they were!)
I have been to parades before. This one was loud above and beyond. Ground shaking. Everyone who had to get by those platforms to get to the business on W38 street was saying "OMG this was incredibly scary". And they were so relieved when they reached inside the building, where the noise level was still above 80db indoors.
When I first arrived in NY almost 20 years ago, I tried to take the 1/9 train up to 79th from 23rd. At 50th, the train was packed as tight as Tokyo with parade-goers who proceeded to hotbox the car, blast stereos, and bang on the windows and doors all the way to 181st. Being trapped in the corner of that car is the only time I've ever had a panic attack. Now I know to avoid midtown on DR day and PR day. I feel bad for those who can't. Your best bet is to complain to the community board and mayors office of special events. 311 is useless. It exists for Karens to think someone cares about their gripes.
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Response by 30yrs_RE_20_in_REO
over 2 years ago
Posts: 9876
Member since: Mar 2009
Imagine living above a restaurant where there was litigation and a court order, yet they still decided to open a nightclub there with loud amplified music, DJs, etc and the court refused to enforce it's own order.
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Response by steve123
over 2 years ago
Posts: 895
Member since: Feb 2009
@George - best description of 311 i ever read
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Response by Krolik
over 2 years ago
Posts: 1369
Member since: Oct 2020
>>> Being trapped in the corner of that car is the only time I've ever had a panic attack.
I’ve been in a train car like that.
I wasn’t pregnant then so did not whip out a decibel meter and did not have to worry about low frequency vibrations causing a miscarriage or early labor.
@MTH thanks for the link. This explains a lot. A horrifying article. Want to damage your hearing, please do so via headphones, and leave the rest of us alone. These things should be illegal in a public place.
I'm sympathetic to the car audio community, being an avid fan of adjacent hobbies (building hot rods and home theatres). But I'd never think of hosting an autocross in Midtown, permit or no.
38th & 5th isn't a neighborhood block party. It's a destination that pretty much every attendee has to travel to. So why not host it in a park? Plenty of space on Randall's Island, with easy bridge access to Dominican strongholds in Highbridge / Inwood / Corona / etc.
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Response by 300_mercer
over 2 years ago
Posts: 10539
Member since: Feb 2007
It wouldn't be a significant parade if it is not one 5th or 6th avenue and too logical to have it in their own hood. Interesting enough they seem to have better enforcement of noise in Dominican Republic as they know Dominicans love the souped up speakers.
Maybe an offer: to move any gathering to an alternative space (eg Randall's Island) or enforce lower decibal readings with serious fines. It would have to be across the board, not just one community.
Hey Rinette, this may sound like one of those “my neighbors are too loud past 9pm and i am trying to sleep” complaints, but the issue here was health- endangering, earth shaking level of sound that really shouldn’t be legal in the middle of the city regardless of occasion or time of the day. I wasn’t able to get police pay any attention to my complaint or even return my calls.
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Response by MTH
about 2 years ago
Posts: 572
Member since: Apr 2012
Lived in Inwood for a while and the unwritten code seemed to be that noisemakers had the right of way in all situations. Summer weekends in particular but not limited to that time of year.
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Krolik, Sorry to hear about your unpleasant experience. When it comes to pre-authorized parades, police is mainly concerned by vandalism, violence, and other bad behavior (look up Puerto Rican day parade and related issues in the past). No one enforces the sound limits if there were to be any as it is temporary in nature. The police doesn't even enforce sound level for a block permit by a restaurant for outdoorparty with amplified music. And this is Dominican Day parade. Who would mess with that? Police feels lucky if there are not major incidents resulting in arrest of some one.
I know this as we had a substantially issue on our block by a restaurant party. Police only stepped in when they thought someone may get injured (property was never in danger). I spoke to the senior police official who was there and he explained what they really care about.
Historically speaking, if a noise complaint is the worst thing to come out of Dominican Parade then it was a pretty good year.
Exactly.
And no one would dare to deny a permit to Dominican Parade next year even if there is some violence.
>>>No one enforces the sound limits if there were to be any as it is temporary in nature.
Lol they do charge money for permits to have a sound amplification device at the event. According to the application form, the permit fee goes towards costs enforcement...
>>>Historically speaking, if a noise complaint is the worst thing to come out of Dominican Parade then it was a pretty good year.
LOL. I get the point.
But it is NOT just an "annoying noise" complaint. It is a public health and public safety issue. All those people on and near those platforms must be deaf after this. And anyone passing by.
Trust me. You are not the first one to notice very loud noise, which is detrimental to health, from amplied music in parades. The police are there and they hear it first hand.
Those officers were miserable. They did not know that there existed a limit and who would be responsible for enforcing it. (Based on my desktop research, they were!)
I have been to parades before. This one was loud above and beyond. Ground shaking. Everyone who had to get by those platforms to get to the business on W38 street was saying "OMG this was incredibly scary". And they were so relieved when they reached inside the building, where the noise level was still above 80db indoors.
@300 maybe can call this guy to help deal with your restaurant and block noise issues?
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/i-team-how-one-nyc-resident-makes-a-living-writing-thousands-of-noise-tickets/4448563/
It seems there is not even a db requirement... Very strange the city makes it so easy to complain about restaurants, but allows a parade produce noise levels above level of a jackhammer and close to or above the noise of a jet taking off.
Thank you. I spoke with the restaurant and they are good neighbors except for once a year when they have that big party.
Look at those loudspeaker pictures from 2017. By now, the noise is grand-fathered.
https://nycparadelife.com/2017/08/14/diablos-and-decibels-dominate-at-the-dominican-parade/
When I first arrived in NY almost 20 years ago, I tried to take the 1/9 train up to 79th from 23rd. At 50th, the train was packed as tight as Tokyo with parade-goers who proceeded to hotbox the car, blast stereos, and bang on the windows and doors all the way to 181st. Being trapped in the corner of that car is the only time I've ever had a panic attack. Now I know to avoid midtown on DR day and PR day. I feel bad for those who can't. Your best bet is to complain to the community board and mayors office of special events. 311 is useless. It exists for Karens to think someone cares about their gripes.
Imagine living above a restaurant where there was litigation and a court order, yet they still decided to open a nightclub there with loud amplified music, DJs, etc and the court refused to enforce it's own order.
@George - best description of 311 i ever read
>>> Being trapped in the corner of that car is the only time I've ever had a panic attack.
I’ve been in a train car like that.
I wasn’t pregnant then so did not whip out a decibel meter and did not have to worry about low frequency vibrations causing a miscarriage or early labor.
These parades need to be uptown where they live.
Eech - sorry you had to endure that, Krolik.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/09/21/arts/music/dominican-soundsystems.html
Fun! See how loud you can make it! :s
@MTH thanks for the link. This explains a lot. A horrifying article. Want to damage your hearing, please do so via headphones, and leave the rest of us alone. These things should be illegal in a public place.
https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/hearing_loss/what_noises_cause_hearing_loss.html#
I'm sympathetic to the car audio community, being an avid fan of adjacent hobbies (building hot rods and home theatres). But I'd never think of hosting an autocross in Midtown, permit or no.
38th & 5th isn't a neighborhood block party. It's a destination that pretty much every attendee has to travel to. So why not host it in a park? Plenty of space on Randall's Island, with easy bridge access to Dominican strongholds in Highbridge / Inwood / Corona / etc.
It wouldn't be a significant parade if it is not one 5th or 6th avenue and too logical to have it in their own hood. Interesting enough they seem to have better enforcement of noise in Dominican Republic as they know Dominicans love the souped up speakers.
https://dominicantoday.com/dr/local/2018/08/02/national-police-detains-167-for-noise-pollution/
Maybe an offer: to move any gathering to an alternative space (eg Randall's Island) or enforce lower decibal readings with serious fines. It would have to be across the board, not just one community.
@Krolik - I agree it's uncivil.
Great new material for 'Pretend It's a City' though https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretend_It%27s_a_City
Such quaint problems, in context!
Hey Rinette, this may sound like one of those “my neighbors are too loud past 9pm and i am trying to sleep” complaints, but the issue here was health- endangering, earth shaking level of sound that really shouldn’t be legal in the middle of the city regardless of occasion or time of the day. I wasn’t able to get police pay any attention to my complaint or even return my calls.
Lived in Inwood for a while and the unwritten code seemed to be that noisemakers had the right of way in all situations. Summer weekends in particular but not limited to that time of year.
I've heard it's horrible up there.