Nothing to worry about in lower Manhattan

lmfao.

lmfaorotf.

“people are a little slower making decisions”

Yes. Judging by the inventory figures, I would say at a standstill.

"The panelists did acknowledge the uncertain impact of financial sector job losses on downtown real estate."

Funny how certain they were when obscene bonuses where artificially driving up the cost of Manhattan real estate, but now that the casualty list is in, the impact is "uncertain."

I agree with malraux, but would like to add - frotff.

I used to work in FiDi, so try not to go back there too much because of the emotional scarring and flashbacks of being in the office at 3am. Can anyone living there attest to how far/close it is to being a "24 hour community?"

Just adding from a personal viewpoint and only on commercial real estate I think there's some merit to this article. I work at a fashion company and we just re-upped our leases for 10 years. Yet even with today's current economic climate, while I'm sure we would have negotiated much more aggressively in regards to the rent, we weren't looking to move away from NYC at all. I think that with tourism and a diversified corporate presence, NYC should continue to be at least one of the top 5 spots that any retailer would consider.

I'm not trying to soften the impact of the current financial crisis and the affect it will have with the loss of jobs and how it will impact finance as a whole but I wouldn't go so far as to say that New York City is black hole to be avoided at all costs. Again, I speak about the commercial RE space, not residential.

"Can anyone living there attest to how far/close it is to being a "24 hour community?""

Yes. About 23 1/2 hours.

Crain's already reported that commercial rents are down 15%.

I think these are the guys who said last month that there was no financial crisis at all.

24/7 ??? Maybe not quite yet but in my opinion not even Times Square is 24/7 . I lived in midtown for 16 years and just moved to Fulton St. in June and I can tell you with certainty that it is not the area it used to be. I had dinner at the seaport at 10:30 pm and it was like a Thursday night in midtown, people all over, restaurants with tables outside and this was a Monday night. You can tell it's also attracting good restaurants, Todd English has a new place on Gold St. and Fresco (from the midtown group) now has a place, I think there is a Nobu coming soon. I would say that maybe a few more infrastructure places would help i.e.: drycleaners,hardware stores and the like but they will come in time I'm sure. If the market at South Street opens that will be a huge help to the community.I think it can go nowhere but up.

"Todd English has a new place on Gold St."

That changes EVERYTHING!

I was out on John street a couple weeks back, from the seaport to broadway, and it was pretty much dead the whole way... there might be some pockets, but most of the neighborhood still seems to be very non-24/7. Hell, most subway entrances seem to be closed.

What would be 24/7 to you ? bars,restaurants,starbucks ? No there's not a pub on every corner yet but I can live without walking around vomit and listening to B&T's scream at each other at 3 am.

I live and work in FiDi for almost 5 years. Atlough it's improved a lot during the time I've lived here I wouldn't quite call it 24/7. But there are all the services (some of them basic, others more upscale) that I need/want - grocery, medical, restaurants, dry cleaners, bodegas, pharmacies. Plus easy walk or subway to LES, Tribeca, Soho, etc. All of the subways are open, you just need to know which ones are closed on the weekend (ie the 2/3 access at the Chase Plaza).

"walking around vomit and listening to B&T's scream at each other at 3 am."

one man's trash is another man's treasure...

You make fun of the Todd English place stevejhx but you'll probably be trying to get in next week telling your 2 co-workers from Jersey City you heard about this great new place in "FiDi"

I just mean people walking around, not deserted alleys.

You don't need vomiting to have some life.

But, point is, its just not there yet.

"your 2 co-workers from Jersey City"

What are you talking about? I've never even been to Jersey City in my whole life, and I have no plans on going.

My point was there are still those of you out there who ascribe value to celebrity, and marketing. Todd English - whoever he is - is marketed, and there is no intrinsic value to what he does versus what anyone else does. It's all marketing. Like, "Interiors by....Scheherazade."

ns143, seaport is quite nice, especially in the warm months. i wonder if it quiets down some after it starts getting cold. the concern I have with FiDi is that although it definitely was starting to make progress as a community in the manhattan bull run, does it have enough critical mass to weather the oncoming contraction? If not, then what few restaurants, drug stores etc that are there may wind up shutting down. Don't know if that's true, but just my concern.

The area is better than it used to be, but it is just not residential yet. Or perhaps I should say neighborhoody...if you allow me to make up a word. There are too many parts that are empty at 8:00 pm and that is not what you want when you live in a city. You don't want overcrowding either, but you want some life and energy....and safety.

I LOVE Scheherazde.... lol... I do agree it's all marketing. All I meant was there are nicer restaurants moving into the area and that brings people out.

So let me ask a question, how is it that places like Beaver House and District and John St. are 75% sold ? Whats the attraction if it's not the neighborhood ?

"All I meant was there are nicer restaurants moving into the area and that brings people out."

Yes, that's all you said and meant... Yet I am actually surprised that you didn't get a response along the lines of:

"When people start pointing out small stuff like nice restaurants, it means that the neighborhood has absolutely nothing going for it and that it is overpriced. Read between the lines. You should lower the price of your place even more. I have a MBA and CFA and I would never live in the FiDi, so you are retard for choosing that neighborhood. Real estate there is going down at least 70%. You are a broker shill and I am putting you on ignore..."

"So let me ask a question, how is it that places like Beaver House and District and John St. are 75% sold ? Whats the attraction if it's not the neighborhood ?"

Oh, nevermind, you are going to get the above response now...

Wow bgaria.... BFD ....I'm happy for your MBA and CFA you must live where all the smart people live.

For the record, I also live in the Fidi. I guess I was just trying to give you a template of the kind of response you should expect on this site. I didn't mean anything of what I said.

I now see the joke....So you DO live where the smart people live. LOL

> So let me ask a question, how is it that places like Beaver House and District
> and John St. are 75% sold ?

Easy... LYING gets you a lot of "sales".

Who's lying the builds or the brokers or the all the websites ?

I recently moved to FiDi from that other "hyped" neighborhood -- tribeca -- and I have to say I couldnt be happier. Huge apartments, best park and transportation access in the city and supremely quiet on weekends. My son can ramble on streets without fear of traffic and the lowest criem rates in the city. As a 25 year old, I would say "blech" but for me as a 35++ year old, it is perfect. Other "24 hour' neighborhoods - Chelsea, East Village, etc. tend to be so because of all of the bars, something which alot of people are over by the time they are 40 (with the exception of a few older losers flying solo spending too much time on message boards). Try taking a stroll at 3AM on the upper west (W80's and 90's) where I lived for 8 years, and you'll find that it too closes down at night.

The one thing that fidi definitely lacks -- which is a problem throughout manhattan -- is good, affordable funky restaraunts. Todd English, Nobu and the like won't change that, and was the same issue in tribeca. Nice to look at, and go to once a year, but mostly expense accounts and B&T -- they contribute zero to the fabric of the neighborhood.

I agree with you markz. Man I wish I'd never brought Todd English into this...There are some good funky places at the seaport. Bridge Cafe is one of my fav's

> Who's lying the builds or the brokers or the all the websites ?

Buildings and brokers.

Check out the 110 livingston situtation. If this was a public company, they'd be in jail.

For my money, the seaport district, which i guess should be considered a sub-neighborhood of Downtown like The Stone Street/South William Street Historic District is as close to a 24/7 neighborhood as you're likely to find. great new restaurants on Front Street, great coffee @ Jack's, a new zealand steak & chops house, real brick over pizza, a true dive bar in Jeremy's, and a decent steak house in Mark Joseph's. I mean, what else do you want? sushi? got that. cheap eats? poke around markzync I think you'll be surprised; I was. now if Pier 17 would just sink I'd be in nirvana.

markz, some of my friends who live down in battery park have similar comments on the park/kids. could good schools be a plus as well?

actually, the primary and middle schools which originally drew such great attention have become so overcrowded they've had to remove the music room and turn it into a classroom. Gehry's project will help, but it's realistically 2 years away from being opened.

What happened at 110 Livingston ? And is Jack's the name of the new zealand steak place at the seaport ?

Jack's is the coffee shop. I'm having a brain freeze remembering the name of the steak place(corner of Peck Slip & Front).

oh just remembered, it's called Nelson Blue. just turned a new decade and alzheimer's sucks:)

> What happened at 110 Livingston ?

Curbed has the full story, but basically..

They claimed sold out. Then an e-mail got passed around saying contracts had been broken... when this got leaked, the brokers claimed that it was just a marketing ploy, folks were upgrading to better apartments, and everything was sold. Then they said sold out again. Then it turns out they were renting out apartments they couldn't sell. Then the brokers claimed "it was owners doing it". Then curbed caught proof that it was the developer renting out what they couldn't sell....

Basically, a year after claiming "sold out", it still wasn't sold out, and they were having trouble selling apartments.

Oh yeah, and the whole time they claimed prices were increasing, but the stats show decreases as time went on...

Thanks I'll check it out, also there's Salud, the Cuban tapas place which is good to.

yeah Salud is great; I got a chance to meet the nice young guy that opened it back 8 years ago and he really tries to make you feel at home; something other restauranteurs could take a lead from.

I REALLY want FiDI to have its stuff together, and I know it eventually will, but I think its a good 5 years until it reaches even just a major portion of its potential. There still needs to be more life...

I was down there 4-5 times in the last month or so, and it just hasn't quite gotten there yet. It will, I'm sure, but its not there yet. Way too much in development now, or waiting to be developed. And there are isolated cool things, absolutely, but not enough to make it much of a "neighborhood" in the NYC sense.

Yet...

I'm sure people said this to every explorer, and your right. Yet...

I know every success story starts with "people told me not to do it".

But, there are more failures that also started with exactly the same words...

markznyc and ns143, which building would you suggest in FiDi? My wife and I areconsidering moving to FiDi to start a family. We looked at 75 Wall and 1 Wall Court. What do you think of 75 Wall and other suggestions? Thanks!

the District or 99 John

there are also a lot a families in Battery Park

ns143 - Thanks for the quick replies. We looked at BPC and didnt feel comfortable with the yearly increases in common charges and PILOT tax after the sponsor's prepayment. Thanks again for the suggestions.

I would stay away from BPC -- too isolated and far from transportation; a nice walk from Fidi and excellent on weekends, but remote. Also PILOT fees are way too risky -- especially in light of what is going on with State coffers.

If you are looking condo, 15 Broad has cool layouts and lots of families, plus tax exemption; 59 John is also nice. 75 Wall is a bit of a haul to subways, and I think there are better deals out there.

ubbatubba -- btw -- LOVE Bridge Cafe. Has been a fave for years. Seaport is great, but seems to get small fast. What we really need are a few more cheap Mexican places (like Radio Mexico RIP), and another bistro or two in addition to Les Halles. Also -- One great Seaport highlight -- the sushi place on Front has 1/2 price drinks every Friday until 7 -- $3 beers!

88 greenwich might also be a good one to look at if they have anything left...

PILOT that tax is so mafia like and has NO ceiling. One of the riskiest investments ever.

stay away from 120 greenwich. all small units and way overpriced.

88 greenwich is alot like everything else in BPC and The Financial District (sorry,can't get myself to drop to FiDi desciiptive): namely, they're lifestyle propositions. Don't be fooled by that. it means simply that you don't really need to leave your building to do anything, because, franklky, there's nothing to do outside your building for a fair range of blocks (unless of course you work on Wall Street. Nevermind). That's what makes the other sub-neighborhoods kinda cool, like the seaport.

Did you FiDi people see this? Apple and some other retailers may back out of wall street locations:

http://ny.therealdeal.com/articles/apple-others-reconsidering-wall-street-stores

Oh no. I am definitely moving!

Fidi (yeah - I hate this too, but it is starting to stick, unfortunately) is getting swarmed with families disgusted with Tribeca's increasingly "Upper East Side" vibe. They are there for the long haul. All of this market chaos will settle along with the neighborhood. Sky has already fallen - nothing to see here, thanks.

Credit issues will affect all of Manhattan retail leasing. FD will hopefully have the chance to grow organically as opposed to a frezny of overhyoed retail (a la Meatpacking) . . .