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Nationwide - 1 in 6 Owners Underwater

Started by nyc10022
over 17 years ago
Posts: 9868
Member since: Aug 2008
Discussion about
Housing Pain Gauge: Nearly 1 in 6 Owners 'Under Water' More Defaults and Foreclosures Are Likely as Borrowers With Greater Debt Than Value in Their Homes Are Put in a Tight Spot The relentless slide in home prices has left nearly one in six U.S. homeowners owing more on a mortgage than the home is worth, raising the possibility of a rise in defaults -- the very misfortune that touched off the... [more]
Response by nyc10022
over 17 years ago
Posts: 9868
Member since: Aug 2008
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Response by alanhart
over 17 years ago
Posts: 12397
Member since: Feb 2007

So what? New York is an island -- we just float.

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Response by type3secretion
over 17 years ago
Posts: 281
Member since: Jun 2008

The glaciers are melting....

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Response by waverly
over 17 years ago
Posts: 1638
Member since: Jul 2008

Interesting post.

There is plenty of blame to go around when we look at how we got into this mess, but people who treated their homes like an ATM should look in the mirror. I am all for helping people in trouble, but there are a lot of people who behaved so recklessly.

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Response by OnTheMove
over 17 years ago
Posts: 227
Member since: Oct 2007

Talking about using one's home as an ATM, look at this nymag article from March: http://nymag.com/news/intelligencer/44763/

One of the profiles is of a bus driver who bought his house for $35,000 and now owes $400,000 on it.

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Response by GraffitiGrammarian
over 17 years ago
Posts: 687
Member since: Jul 2008

If NYC is immune from whatever happens in other markets, then why did the runup in NYC prices occur simultaneous with the runup in home prices everywhere else?

It's reasonable to say that our differences are significant, but it's not reasonable to say that our differences make us immune.

Prices went up in NYC for the same reasons they went up elsewhere: mortgages were super-cheap and housing as an asset had a track record of very low price volatilty vs other types of assets (mututal funds, antiques, whatever.)

And prices here are declining now, in tandem with price declines elsewhere, because we are subject to many of the same influences as other markets: debt costs a lot more now and is harder to get, and there is no longer any guarantee of price stability.

It may be true that declines in NYC will be less than in the rest of the country. But there's no sound basis for assuming that we are going to be immune.

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Response by waverly
over 17 years ago
Posts: 1638
Member since: Jul 2008

GG - I totally agree with you that NYC is not immune. There are plenty of apartments that will have sustantial declines, but I do think there are some apartments that will hold-up more or less okay (all things considered).

NYC is certainly not immune.

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Response by toast
over 17 years ago
Posts: 49
Member since: Jul 2008

Talking about using one's home as an ATM:
Ed McMahon's Beverly Hills house...
The aging television icon, who was Johnny Carson's sidekick for three decades, defaulted on $4.8 million in mortgage loans with Countrywide Financial Corp.
McMahon purchased the house in 1990 for $2.6 million, according to public records.

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Response by nyc10022
over 17 years ago
Posts: 9868
Member since: Aug 2008

> but I do think there are some apartments that will hold-up more or less okay

I don't agree unless by "hold up more or less okay" you mean a 25% decline.

The income and wealth of this city just got hit by a bomb. There is no magic sector of people who won't be affected.

Exactly what drove it up is exactly what got hit. The legs have just been pulled out from under.

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Response by waverly
over 17 years ago
Posts: 1638
Member since: Jul 2008

yes, but not all apartments are created equal. Some are going to be more affected than others. If a couple of apartments sell for a 20% discount that doesn't mean the market is now 20% off, it means that those apartments were a 20% decline.

There is no flat, one-nimber-fits-all apartments in NYC. Some will likely sell for more than 25% down, others will be better off. Example, one apartment in a building sells for $800k three months ago, another apartment in the same line goes on sale today, except it is completely renovated, on a higher floor, has an actual unobstructed view because of the higher floor. Is that apartment worth $800k as well? They are in the same building and in the same line, but they are different apartments and are worth (hypothetically of course) different amounts of money.

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Response by Admiral
over 17 years ago
Posts: 393
Member since: Aug 2008

waverly - in denial much? When did you buy? Recently, eh? Tsk, tsk...

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Response by waverly
over 17 years ago
Posts: 1638
Member since: Jul 2008

Admiral - what I am saying is that no one can just say a number and that number will fit all apartments in NYC. If RE decliens 25%, it is logical to assume that some will sell for 25% less, some for more than 25% less and some for less than 25% less.

That isn't denial. That seems to make sense. I am not suggesting there will be no decline in RE (look at any of my posts on SE), just that it is not so cut & dry.

An overpriced, piece of crap in a bad location should be affected more than a reasonably priced, nice apartment in a good neighborhood. That's all. How is that denial? That seems to be a factually supported and logical statement. Again, I am not saying there will be no decline, just that it will affect each apartment, building and neighborhood differently.

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