Northside Piers

Ooops. Thanks. That's fixed. Listings are there now...

so it this place actually built?

has anyone seen this place??

The sales are not showing up. What gives? It's mostly built, but not quite topped off. There will be two other towers and a wraparound, low-rise rental bldg with retail. I looked at it. Looks nice.

The sales don't show up until the actual contract is closed. I'm assuming since it's new dev they sign the contract with 10% and then wait until a year to close. When you close, the actual sales number is recorded and shows up in streeteasy. Correct me if i'm wrong.

#6, one of the really nice things about StreetEasy is that it shows "in contract" date, price, sq.ft., not just ask and closed sales. I have no idea what the source is -- probably required Atty Gen filings for new developments. Or are "in contract" entries listed for resales, too???

any news on this dev?

Looks like prices haven't moved since last spring but there are still a lot of units on the block. The sales office was busy last Saturday.

so now they are renting? that seems lie a bad sign or was this planned?

of course this is a bad sign. I am guessing they do not want to offer down the unsold units, so they decided to rent them instead.

No one is going to want to buy in an area that looks like it's straight out of Blade Runner, in a building that sits atop hundreds of low income buyers (read the fine print; that's how they got the permit to build this monstrosity), if they can live in the financial district/lower east side for less.... These apartments are way, way overpriced. And if you do buy, and by some stroke of good luck (i.e., a miracle) the market does actually pick up, Toll's going to do you a solid by building two taller building right in front of your window (again, read the fine print or, better yet, take a look at the models of the two massive transparent buildings directly in front of this one, but I'm guessing that when they're actually built, you ain't gonna be able to see through them). These apartments need to come down 40%-50% to even begin looking attractive.

Loftparade, you make some good points. However, Toll Brothers has already started Northside Piers 2 and will be competing head-to-head with the Edge in selling the units. So, if the market does pick up in a couple of years, only Northside Piers 3 will be coming online. Toll does not plan to start Northside Piers 3 anytime soon.

My personal view is that there is massive demand for waterfront in Williamsburg. At the moment it may seem like too much supply, with Northside Piers 1, 2 and the Edge coming on the market - but there is massive interest in living at the waterfront. Of course, we have went into a housing market crisis, so it remains to be seen how the new supply is cleared.

I do find it shocking that Toll Brothers has started Northside Piers 2 in this environment, given the fact that Northside Piers 1 is only 75% sold and there are approx 400 units coming in the Edge.

shezy121, there are actually 1085 units being built at The Edge (Phase One and Phase Two), and if Domino gets built it'll be 2200 units. Nowhere near enough demand for all that.

What is the Domino project? This is the first time I am hearing about this...

loftparade is right. that area is ridiculousy grimy and looks like a freaking warzone. why would anyone spend that kind of money to live in such an area, and in the same building as poor people who are only there because of liberal NYC government programs?

Once again, we see why NYC is so inferior to Chicago.

shezy121, take a look here: http://curbed.com/archives/2008/06/25/the_new_approved_domino_fully_revealed.php

I'm not sure it gets built, but would be pretty nice if it does.

So what the heck happened here? Some units went down over $500K...And yeah, prices are still absurd but imagine the originall prices.

Cleanslate, here's what I think happened: around ten weeks ago I suggested that Toll needed to drop prices by 40-50% for them to "begin looking attractive"...and on the strength of my recommendation, they dropped prices by something like 37%. Of course I'm just kidding, but no joke, this is the start of the price tumble in Billyburg. It's now more obvious than ever that buyers need to be offered some sort of premium to pick the Burg (especially a frontier area like the waterfront) over the LES/FIDI.

25% price chops at Northside...

http://ny.therealdeal.com/articles/fire-sale-on-condos-tax-credits-for-first-time-homebuyers

Other than NS2 and The Edge, what are some Williamsburg (or other Brooklyn neighborhoods) high-rise buildings that have really beautiful views of Manhattan?

Thanks

In Williamsburg, I'll answer my own question - the Albero.

Question on NS1 - have they sold everything other than what is left on their website? If that's it, there are only ~20 units left in total.

I actually have a friend in NS1 and she loves living there. My husband and I went to look at NS2 which was started before the crash and is due to be done by summer (very unlikely in my opinion). The area is getting better and the views are great. If you live in NS2, no other buildings can block your view because the Edge is the last one to go up. Definitely looks like great places to live, but I agree, still way to expensive. They are offering 10% off right now for the first 10 buyers, but it needs to me more like 25%.

Just got an email announcing new price cuts in Tower 1. Maintenance is still to high for me.

Apt SF View List Price New Price
SPECIAL LIMITED TIME PRICE*

6D 2/2 1131 Southwest $789,990 $694,990

7D 2/2 1131 Southwest $794,990 $700,990

7E 2/2 1152 Southeast $771,990 $642,990

8E 2/2 1152 Southeast $776,990 $648,990

4G 3/2 1244 Northeast $859,990 $714,990

7G 3/2 1244 Northeast $874,990 $745,990

19C 1/1 737 West $599,990 $543,990

24C 1/1 737 West $624,990 $564,990

25C 1/1 737 West $629,990 $569,990

PH9 2/2.5 1250 Northwest $949,990 $828,990

PH10 2/2.5 - 212 sf Balcony 1271 Northeast $1,064,990 $969,990

PH15 2/2.5 - 314 sf Balcony 1271 Northeast $1,084,990 $974,990

LookPied, if that's true, then the price is almost less than $600 psf, what's the impact on the other buildings, like Edge, NV ?

Can anyone confirm this to be true? and if so, will this put pressure on similar developments to lower their asking price?

There are only 3, possibly 2 units left at the NV.

But if the price continues to go down, there is going to be risks of foreclosures at the NV if most of the buyers are underwater.

Of course, there are multiple scenarios that can play out. I had just learned about the sales status of NV and was simply sharing the info since it was mentioned here.

Confirmed, I got the same email as well.
Rates are going up and prices will come down.

why would they cut prices on a building thats 80-90 sold? I would think that if there was any hope of a rebound on the horizon they would wait it out. It must be just testing the waters

I'll wait and see what they offer on the summer sale event. Lol

With Tower 2 having lower prices & maintenance and better views, they need to make the price in Tower 1 attractive to move them. I think this price range will do it. Hard to say if this one price cut will pressure other smaller developments such as 90 N 5th (which recently has already cut prices) or NV to cut further as they have some advantages over NP such as lower maintenance and closer proximity to Bedford and the subway.

I dont know why everybody is making a big deal of of these price cuts. These units are the least desirable ones in the building. Just like in any development, the best units go first and the worst go last. Toll Brothers is simply just trying to get rid of stale units the way retailers get rid of their stale merchandise.

And the people anticipating major price drops due to rate hikes will be disappointed as well. Assuming a $900,000 purchase price and 20% down, the delta between 5% today and 6% is a few hundred bucks a month. For cheaper apartments, the difference is even less significant. Nobody knows where rates are going but if rates do rise over the next few years, they will rise while other forces are taking place as well which may offset the hike. Of course, if you think the whole world is going down the tubes, then there is no chance convincing you.

hey Lance1...whats the present value of those few hundred bucks a month for 30 years?

Does it really make a difference? Most Americans live month to month these days so those few hundred buck would be spent one way or another.

it makes a huge difference. rates have already gone up without any offsetting benefits. the PV of 200 per month for 30years @ 5.3 is 36k. 200 is for a low price point. thats significant.

I also took finance in college but in the real world, people who invest in real estate aren't doing pv calculations especially when it comes to homeownership. Your argument regarding PV is totally flawed. For one, banks arent offering 5.3% interest rate on your money so why are you using that rate. And if your talking about an investment in the equities market, we all know how that's worked over the past ten years. And since your doing calculations, why dont you project real estate values in 30 years and let me know if those values dont offset the insignficant 36k you mention.

"people who invest in real estate aren't doing pv calculations especially when it comes to homeownership"

riiiight...because cash flows dont mean anything. clearly you failed that class in college. 5.3 represents a mortgage rate which is the same rate you would use as the discount rate.

Prices look ok to me. Unit 19C is asking $540k for a 730 sq foot unit. It looks like those units can fetch $2600 rent. Gross yearly rental income assuming landlord pays the broker fee comes out to a cap rate of 4%, which I think is not so bad for NYC.

15 min walk to subway? renting out for $2600? with the view soon to be blocked by phase 3, and an awkward floor plan? I don't think so.

Marco:

Your discount rate still doesn't mean much to me. You're trying to analyze the present value of a few hundred bucks for 30 years in order to determine whether its' worth doing a real estate deal. Is that really how you analyze a real estate deal? Sounds like you're taking finance 101 to seriously. Do you own any real estate at all?

Im a first time buyer thats trying to get the price (value of the asset) right. Rates are just one piece of the puzzle.

Im a first time buyer thats trying to get the price (value of the asset) right. Rates are just one piece of the puzzle.

Does anyone else think the common charges are too high at northside? I believe they are $5,800 for an 750sf apt. Also, is it true that common charges often increase?

correction to my previous post...580 a month in common charges for a 750sf apt