If You Can Demonstrate Market Movement With Comps: Upper West Side Edition

685 West End Avenue "C" and "D" lines: On one hand, these secondary lines in the rear of one of the better buildings in the 90s illustrate the spring bounce in the $1MM 2BR bracket. #10D, which had been updated at the time of the 2009 sale, was clearly a nice buy. On the other hand, #9C and #9D may have enhanced each other's value, because they were bought with the intent of combining them. (They were listed that way for $2.6MM, and sold for a total of $2.3MM; #9C was not listed separately.) #11C will probably provide confirmation of the uptick when it closes.
--------Recorded Sales----------|--------Previous Listings----------
*CONTRACT* #11C ................................... | . $1,275,000 Sold 2 beds 1.5 baths
06/08/2010 # 9C $1,205,000 ......... |
06/08/2010 # 9D $1,095,000 + 4.3% | . $1,050,000 Sold 2 beds 1.5 baths 1,100 ft²
08/26/2009 #10D ... $972,500 - 2.6% |↓ ... $999,000 Sold 2 beds 1.5 baths 1,200 ft²
04/24/2009 # 7C ................................... |↓ $1,150,000 2 beds 1.5 baths 1,300 ft²
04/17/2008 # 9C $1,250,000 - 3.5% | . $1,295,000 Sold 2 beds 1.5 baths
06/22/2006 #11C $1,255,000 - 5.3% | . $1,325,000 Sold 2 beds 1.5 baths
08/10/2005 # 6C ... $969,000 + 7.8% | ... $899,000 Sold 2 beds 1.5 baths 1,100 ft²
11/04/2004 #14C $1,275,193 ......... | -
10/22/2004 #15D $950,000 -13.2% | . $1,095,000 Sold 2 beds 1.5 baths
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/building/685-west-end-avenue-new_york

Same-unit resale, nominally flat from 2005, but seller eating reno cost: http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/498528-coop-35-west-92nd-street-upper-west-side-new-york

04/18/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $625,000.
02/18/2009 Previously Listed in StreetEasy, but temporarily delisted, by Corcoran at $699,000.
05/11/2009 Corcoran Listing is no longer available.
02/25/2010 Listed by Prudential Elliman at $639,000.
03/27/2010 Listing entered contract.
06/17/2010 Sale recorded for $625,000.

Same-unit resale, up 22% from 2005: http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/502181-condo-160-west-86th-street-upper-west-side-new-york

07/11/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $4,300,000.
03/12/2010 Listed by Corcoran at $5,250,000.
04/03/2010 Listing entered contract.
06/11/2010 Sale recorded for $5,250,000.

300 Central Park West #PH31D (a.k.a. #3132D): Same-unit resale of trippy penthouse, 31% below 2008 basis.
08/16/2005 Sale recorded for $4,500,000
08/21/2008 Sale recorded for $6,700,000
01/21/2010 Listed by Prudential Elliman at $5,995,000.
02/09/2010 Price decreased by 8% to $5,495,000.
03/20/2010 Price decreased by 9% to $4,995,000.
06/10/2010 Listing entered contract.
06/18/2010 Sale recorded for $4,625,000.
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/490795-coop-300-central-park-west-upper-west-side-new-york

Wow, five months to unload that place isn't bad, considering.

I felt sorry for the seller's $2M stumble, but then saw she got a nice chunk of boom bucks at the Ansonia, so won some/lost some.

Up 65% from 2005: http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/488288-condo-15-west-63rd-street-lincoln-square-new-york

05/05/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $5,365,000.
01/22/2009 Previously Listed by Sotheby's International Realty, Inc. at $9,800,000.
12/08/2009 Delisted by Sotheby's International Realty, Inc.. Last priced at $8,250,000.
01/11/2010 Listed by Brown Harris Stevens at $8,875,000.
02/02/2010 Listing entered contract.
06/15/2010 Sale recorded for $8,875,000.

Here's history of 22B-27B:

25B 06/15/2010 ..$8,875,000
23B 06/17/2008 $10,000,000
26B 11/30/2006 ..$6,100,000
25B 05/05/2005 ..$5,365,000
27B 01/30/2003 ..$4,750,000
23B 05/21/2002 ..$3,850,000
27B 08/02/2001 ..$3,360,000
25B 08/01/2001 ..$3,463,500
26B 07/30/2001 ..$3,333,000
24B 07/30/2001 ..$3,284,000
23B 07/20/2001 ..$3,309,500
22B 07/12/2001 ..$3,309,500

Quick sale at asking, up 22% from 2005: http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/502181-condo-160-west-86th-street-upper-west-side-new-york

04/15/1999 Previous Sale recorded for $1,935,000. (ACRIS)
07/11/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $4,300,000.
03/12/2010 Listed by Corcoran at $5,250,000.
04/03/2010 Listing entered contract.
06/11/2010 Sale recorded for $5,250,000.

NWT
you are kicing butt! east and west!

that's kicking

Quick sale with multiple bids, up 6% from 2006: http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/499778-coop-710-west-end-avenue-upper-west-side-new-york

03/20/2006 Previous Sale recorded for $635,000.
03/03/2010 Listed by Halstead Property at $650,000.
03/25/2010 Listing entered contract.
06/17/2010 Sale recorded for $676,000.

The renovations predate the 2006 sale.

23 West 73rd, #603. Resale 17.5% above 2005 previous sale (looks like a major renovation in between) and slightly above ask.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/489157-coop-23-west-73-street-upper-west-side-new-york?email=true
10/31/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $1,200,000.
01/14/2010 Listed by Carol E Levy at $1,395,000.
01/14/2010 Also Listed by Carol E Levy at $1,395,000.
04/24/2010 Carol E Levy Listing sold. Last priced at $1,395,000.
04/27/2010 Listing entered contract.
06/10/2010 Sale recorded for $1,411,500.
06/29/2010 Listing sold.

306/308 West 97th #43: Same-unit resale of a renovated 2BR/2BA pre-war condo with very low monthlies. Closed 12.6% below original sponsor sale.
06/01/2006 Listed by Time Equities at $1,068,750.
06/13/2007 Sale recorded for $1,068,750.
09/09/2009 Listed by Shubert Realty at $1,100,000.
01/12/2010 Price reduced to $999,000.
02/24/2010 Price reduced to $969,000.
05/10/2010 Listing entered contract
06/18/2010 Sale recorded for $934,500.
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/building/308-west-97-street-manhattan

15 West 81st, "H" line. Large 2/2 with dining foyer. All units on floors 3-8 have traded at least once since 2004. The recorded sales show the expected trend: ascent, collapse, and now a bounce with 6H? Once again I don't know condition of the older sales, but neither 6H nor 7H showed pictures of the kitchen/bathrooms in the listings, so we can probably assume they needed some work.

Recorded Sales | Previous Listings
06/15/2010 #6H $1,435,000 -4.0% | $1,495,000 Sold 2 beds 2 baths
10/13/2009 #5H $1,320,000 - |
04/06/2009 #7H $1,382,500 -7.5% | $1,495,000 Sold 2 beds 2 baths
04/26/2007 #4H $1,750,000 -2.0% | $1,785,000 Sold 2 beds 2 baths
11/17/2005 #8H $1,612,500 - |
01/07/2005 #3H $1,460,000 - |
10/06/2004 #8H $1,395,000 - |

895 WEA #9A closed on June 30th for $1.6MM. There's no listing available, so it's hard to tell what to make of this transaction. If it's an arm's length sale of the original corner 7 footprint, the price is notable. The sellers appear to be sisters. If so, the apartment has probably been in their family for a long time, and likely needs work. Nonetheless, it seems like a very nice buy, and might have triggered the latest price cut on #10B, the smaller wreck one floor up.
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/476456-coop-895-west-end-avenue-manhattan-valley-new-york

NWT, can I trouble you to post your research for 400 West End, Apt 6D? Much appreciated.

Multiple bids on a river-view two-bedroom/one-bath, flat from 2004, or down by reno cost: http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/498605-coop-299-riverside-drive-manhattan-valley-new-york

08/25/2004 Previous Sale recorded for $995,000.
02/25/2010 Listed by Halstead Property at $929,000.
03/17/2010 Listing entered contract.
06/29/2010 Sale recorded for $999,000.

The sellers are buying 10AB upstairs: http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/499749-coop-299-riverside-drive-manhattan-valley-new-york

cilantro, I don't find any sales record for 6D. Here're others in the line:

09/03/2008 #05D $1,700,000
02/28/2006 #10D $1,555,000
03/27/2003 #05D ...$899,150
03/10/2003 #02D ...$885,000

9D and 15D have also sold in recent years, but they're smaller or larger than the main D line.

Up 21% from 2007: http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/496158-condo-27-west-72nd-street-upper-west-side-new-york

02/28/2007 Previous Sale recorded for $1,232,082.
02/14/2010 Listed by Corcoran at $1,595,000.
04/29/2010 Listing entered contract.
06/30/2010 Sale recorded for $1,500,000.

Oops, from 2006. May 2006 contract.

2/2, up 30% from 2004: http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/501023-coop-11-west-69th-street-lincoln-square-new-york

01/10/2005 Previous Sale recorded for $951,000.
05/10/2008 Previously Listed by Corcoran at $1,350,000.
01/12/2009 Delisted temporarily by Corcoran.
03/09/2010 Listed by Corcoran at $1,295,000.
03/20/2010 Listing entered contract.
07/01/2010 Sale recorded for $1,245,000.

No permits found for the reno, but looks less than five years old.

Whoever staged and shot that apartment did a super job. It looks much bigger in the pictures than the layout would imply. That can be a negative. You don't want to set expectations too high.

Up 57% from 2004: http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/505342-coop-304-west-75th-street-upper-west-side-new-york

04/27/2004 Previous Sale recorded for $217,500.
03/24/2010 Listed by Argo Residential at $359,000.
05/04/2010 Listing sold.
06/30/2010 Sale recorded for $342,000.

Enough to pay for the reno, anyway.

Lincoln Towers one-bedroom, up 15% from early 2006, after 2.5 years on the market: http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/447953-coop-140-west-end-avenue-lincoln-square-new-york

The 2006 sale was by an estate, so reno probably paid for by these sellers.

04/04/2006 Previous Sale recorded for $630,000.
01/04/2008 Previously Listed by Halstead Property at $1,150,000.
12/07/2008 Halstead Property Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $899,000.
08/27/2009 Listed by Halstead Property at $799,000.
01/29/2010 Delisted temporarily.
02/02/2010 Price decreased by 4% to $769,000.
02/10/2010 Re-listed by Halstead Property.
04/17/2010 Listing entered contract.
07/02/2010 Sale recorded for $730,000.

Up 28% from early 2008, enough to cover the renovation: http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/505315-coop-70-riverside-drive-upper-west-side-new-york

03/26/2008 Previous Sale recorded for $835,000.
03/24/2010 Listed by Corcoran at $1,150,000.
04/15/2010 Listing entered contract.
07/08/2010 Sale recorded for $1,072,500.

How do you know hoe much the renovation cost?
Also, looks like #1J sold for about the same price (less transaction costs) as 2006.

I don't know, but assumed $237K would cover a kitchen and a couple of baths. You're right, though, that instead of "enough" I should've said "may have been enough." It's also sort of pointless to cite percentages when we don't have access to the seller's books.

1J was covered in one of the threads at the time of sale.

I got you.

Of course it is really $237 less at least $60k in transaction costs. And if they were carrying the apartment for 2 1/4 years that would be another $5,000/month in carrying costs (less of course if they paid cash) so another $30,000 at a minimum but more likely closer to $100,000. (Makes you understand the pressure on all the old "flip" shows to do a renovation and deal quickly).

It is possible they broke even but more likely they lost as much as six figures or more on this.

Nevertheless I think they did well considering the timing.

what is word on apthorp? any closings yet? have been delayed 3 months already

No closings yet. It's now officially a condo, so closings could've started last month.

nwt, on that rsd sale why did you leave out the initial ask for the 2008 sale? seems like a very large amount off initial ask in a fairly short time, given the selling climate at the time. kind of screams distress sale to me.

About - or it was a REAL wreck of a place and the renovation made a huge improvement. Either way, looks like they bought well, did a renovation, and probably still lost a bunch of $. Poor timing. They probably lost less than others, but then that is probably why the trade actually happened.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/473285-coop-215-west-91st-street-upper-west-side-new-york
03/04/2010 Listed by Prudential Elliman at $1,395,000.
03/18/2010 Listing entered contract.
06/25/2010 Listing sold.
06/25/2010 Sale recorded for $1,455,000.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/478267-coop-320-central-park-west-upper-west-side-new-york

Still listed for $1.575mm after a busted contract. 1700 sq Ft 3 bdrm 3 full baths. I feel sort for the lemming with the one toilet on 91st street. What happens when you got the runs and your wife has her period? Allah help them, or you could wear depends while You wait for tour wife.....

Looks like Spinny made a great decision to buy his penthouse last year!!!

Everyman's got a penis, every woman's got a vagina and every buildings got s penthouse.

West67, do you know what the place at 320 CPW went to contract for before it busted? Seems like a decent sized place but needs a major renovation.

ph41 - except mine is bigger, has 2 full baths, big skylights, and 3 sliding doors to the terrace. I was surprised this one went for 50% over my admission price, especially when you consider its maint is 1000/month higher. It does have a larger terrace than mine though but no way I'd pay half a mil more for it. I saw it and thought it was stratospherically overpriced. different strokes..

Spin- That one did seem to be well renovated, though the bedrooms are tiny. maybe that's why this next one went so fast - condo, 2 full baths, though the parapet wall is so high I'm not sure how you see over it except on tip toe.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/500268-condo-215-west-90th-street-upper-west-side-new-york3/04/2010
03/04/2010 Listed by Prudential Elliman at $1,395,000. .
03/18/2010 Listing entered contract.
06/25/2010 Listing sold.
06/25/2010 Sale recorded for $1,455,000.

885 WEA #12B. Multiple bids on reconfigured 7, sold 6% above ask. Sale price from acris.

Recorded Sales Previous Listings
07/22/2010 #12B $1,900,000 | $1,795,000 Sold 3 beds 3 baths
11/22/2005 #7B $1,710,000 |
08/11/2005 #5B $1,575,000 |

Perhaps coincidentally, #2A in this building also sold above ask back in March.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/494751-coop-885-west-end-avenue-upper-west-side-new-york

91 Central Park West 7C estate classic six -

02/12/2010 Listed by Prudential Elliman at $1,750,000.
03/16/2010 Listing entered contract.
06/01/2010 Listing sold.
06/01/2010 Sale recorded for $2,100,000.

Re: 91 CPW: 11C sold in April 2008 for the same price. So this seems to be a rare above-peak comp.

Just a reminder to people: This is a comp thread, which means it's for actual comps, generally in the same line. Just posting a price history doesn't tell you much about the market.

umm, yeah. that wasn't working with the 11C sale. thought my brain just took another turn for the worse.

i don't know the background on 320 CPW 6MN. That's a lot of space along not-so-bad CPW for $1.575mm, no? even if it needs work.

Miette - Agree that this is a comps thread, (and I should have put in some of the other classic 6's in that building which, not exactly the same line as 7C, still sold for pretty high prices)but I do think that the listing for 7C DOES say quite a bit about the market for classic 6's on the UWS

ph - is it saying something other than "that's a lot for an estate condition C6"?

uws - yes, it's saying that something priced very well (and look at the other sales of 6's in that building), even in estate condition,was perceived as well under market, even considering probable costs of renovation. And that the market for classic 6's in A locations on the UWS doesn't seem to be headed down.

1/1. renovated, can't tell by whom. very reasonable mtc.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/505351-coop-321-west-90th-street-upper-west-side-new-york

07/13/2005Previous Sale recorded for $605,000.
03/24/2010Listed by Bellmarc at $645,000.
05/08/2010Listing entered contract.
06/25/2010Sale recorded for $632,000.

i don't personally agree that market movement can only be shown with closed comps. some units sell for over ask, but the large majority don't. this is interesting to me. in a building that converted to condo in 2006. sponsor still has units, i don't know how many. 169 recorded sales, but some have been resales. building has 19 floors, and units appear to go up to O for all floors, with a P spotted on a lower floor. This would imply roughly 266 units, not taking into account some combos. I don't know how many units, if any, are still occupied by renters. this is an example of how extremely hard it is to know what kind of shadow inventory there is. and, of course, it doesn't seem likely that this seller will be pleased with the resale.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/501464-condo-230-riverside-drive-upper-west-side-new-york

09/17/2007Previous Sale recorded for $834,965.
03/10/2010Listed by Prudential Elliman at $869,000.
04/05/2010Price decreased by 2% to $849,000.
04/27/2010Price decreased by 6% to $799,000.
06/03/2010Price decreased by 6% to $749,000.
07/13/2010Price decreased by 7% to $699,000.

new conversion, condo, pre-war i believe. this is 3C. 4C sold 07/07, one of the initial sales and i don't know contract date, for $896,060. under $700 psf for new conversion unit.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/472586-condo-220-west-93rd-street-upper-west-side-new-york

10/20/2009Listed by Halstead Property at $785,000.
11/19/2009Listing entered contract.
01/19/2010Re-listed by Halstead Property.
01/19/2010Price increased by 2% to $799,000.
04/26/2010Listing entered contract.
07/02/2010Listing sold.
07/02/2010Sale recorded for $765,000.
07/19/2010Price decreased by 4% to $765,000.

239 CPW C Line classic six. Lots of activity on the low/mid floors. 6C and 4C expanded the kitchen from the maid's and carved an additional bedroom/den from the 2nd bedroom. On 5C, the BHS listing implies it was renovated, but no pics of kitchen/baths are available. 3C was in original condition and needed work.

#5C recently closed up 4% from reconfigured 4C sale from a year ago. 6C listed at $1.85 (up 14% from previous Jan-05 sale) and went to contract in about 3 weeks. It would appear the current owners renovated.

Recorded Sales Previous Listings
05/11/2010 #6C CONTRACT | $1,850,000 ↓ Sold 2 beds 3 baths
07/01/2010 #5C $1,765,000 -1.7% | $1,795,000 ↓ Sold 2 beds 3 baths
11/16/2009 #3C $1,525,000 -10.0% | $1,695,000 Sold 2 beds 2 baths
07/01/2009 #4C $1,700,000 -5.6% | $1,800,000 ↓ Sold 3 beds 2.5 baths 1,900 ft
01/24/2005 #6C $1,625,000 | -

2000 broadway, post-war condo, the copley. 1/1.5. high monthlies, but they've been high in the building for a while, based on a spot check of a couple of units. this is 16A. seems to be in decent if not stunning condition. 23A, which from the description was likely nicer, sold for $1,225,000 in 11/06. 10A and 20A, no idea of condition, sold for $920k 05/06 and $890k 12/04.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/494509-condo-2000-broadway-lincoln-square-new-york
02/05/2010Listed by Corcoran at $925,000.
03/15/2010Listing entered contract.
07/01/2010Listing sold.
07/01/2010Sale recorded for $895,000.

1/1, walk up. almost halfway between the two prior sales.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/376431-coop-49-west-87th-street-upper-west-side-new-york

07/07/2004Previous Sale recorded for $380,000.
05/26/2006Previous Sale recorded for $501,000.
01/22/2009Listed by Halstead Property at $485,000.
02/28/2009Price decreased by 5% to $459,000.
03/25/2009Listing sold.
06/30/2010Sale recorded for $445,000.

unit 3A. pre-war 1/1, "designer" renovations. 6A sold for $535k 07/05; 1A for $505k 11/06 (although i think this may have been a medical office); and 5A (no mention of any renovations in the description) for $540,215 02/07. it did sell quickly, at close to ask.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/499588-coop-300-west-72nd-street-lincoln-square-new-york
03/02/2010Listed by Corcoran at $515,000.
04/16/2010Listing entered contract.
06/30/2010Listing sold.
06/30/2010Sale recorded for $500,000.

2/2 walk up, one flight up. brand new renovation, kitchen and bathrooms. same unit resale. great mtc.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/503131-coop-212-w-85th-street-upper-west-side-new-york
10/06/2005Previous Sale recorded for $940,000.
03/17/2010Listed by David Jaros, LREB at $995,000.
05/13/2010Listing entered contract.
06/30/2010Listing sold.
06/30/2010Sale recorded for $960,000.

the early 2010 sale seems to be distress-related. small 1/1 ph.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/496035-coop-140-west-69th-street-lincoln-square-new-york

09/28/2004Previous Sale recorded for $409,000.
01/15/2010Previous Sale recorded for $200,000.
02/13/2010Listed by Prudential Elliman at $450,000.
05/04/2010Listing entered contract.
06/29/2010Listing sold.
06/29/2010Sale recorded for $390,000.

walk up. jr. 1 bed with a couple of loft spaces.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/349522-coop-104-west-87th-street-upper-west-side-new-york

11/28/2007Previous Sale recorded for $470,000.
09/17/2008Listed by Prudential Elliman at $449,000.
01/06/2009Listing entered contract.
06/01/2009Listing is no longer available.
08/21/2009Re-listed by Prudential Elliman.
08/22/2009Price decreased by 5% to $425,000.
10/20/2009Price decreased by 6% to $399,000.
11/21/2009Listing is no longer available.
12/12/2009Re-listed by Prudential Elliman.
01/07/2010Price decreased by 4% to $385,000.
03/12/2010Price decreased by 4% to $369,000.
04/18/2010Listing entered contract.
06/29/2010Sale recorded for $357,500.
07/01/2010Listing is no longer available.

8P, alcove studio, 3P, 5P and 9P all sold for between $425-450k mid-'05.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/478491-condo-215-west-95th-street-upper-west-side-new-york

11/13/2009Listed by Barak Realty at $479,000.
03/04/2010Price decreased by 6% to $449,000.
04/06/2010Listing sold.
06/29/2010Sale recorded for $440,000.

lincoln towers, alcove studio. can't tell who did the renovation, could easily have been earlier or recent.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/414295-coop-170-west-end-avenue-lincoln-square-new-york
04/24/2006Previous Sale recorded for $410,000.
05/19/2009Listed by Bellmarc at $410,000.
08/22/2009Listing is no longer available.
02/11/2010Re-listed by Bellmarc.
02/11/2010Price decreased by 4% to $395,000.
05/03/2010Listing entered contract.
06/29/2010Listing sold.
06/29/2010Sale recorded for $380,000.

AR - It shouldn't really come as a surprise anymore that mediocre apartments are trading below peak, should it? Gatling gun postings showing a market decline (OMG!) are akin to watching CNBC reruns from 2009. I hope that for your effort someone is getting something from it, but I still believe the real story here are the sales that continue to defy the market.

Whatever makes you sleep well at night, spinny. In most circumstances distress shows up at the lower levels first.

A healthy market requires move up buyers. And I think it's telling that the market that's being hugely supported by gov''t policies is sucking so badly. Honesy claimed that I was wrong that the smaller units were doing so badly. But if you like to focus on the ones that defy market trends, good on you.

And actually, it is a bit of a surprise. Small mediocre apartments showed remarkable strength until quite recently.

Dude, the cheapest apartments in Manhattan were were a breeding ground for predatory lending. If that is the move-up buyer pool we are in deep trouble indeed. Thankfully, based on sales strength that hasn't wavered much in more than a year, it appears the predominant breeding ground for buyers is not in that swamp.

sweets, i'm not a dude and you know it. and these were mostly coops, not condos.

let's chat next year.

Spinaker1 I think you are on to something, the pop in action was probably due to the fact that this was the only segment of the market that qualified for financing. Credit is more available for jumbos and quality borrowers so there are choices.

When buying it's generally wise to go with best of breed.

It's a term of endearment AR, I don't get that sense from sweets.

Why are you so frothed up anyway?

Data is data - not sure why you are getting so worked up against AR, Spin. Feel free to post counter examples if you'd like. I'm grateful for more information, one way or the other.

sorry, i didn't sense the fondness in dude. you know i like you spinny.

how was that prior comment so frothed up? i'm just showing some movement, spinny. you seem far more frothed up about it than me.

it is what it is. i don't know if you read the other comp threads, but it's happening all over. and if you don't understand the implications of the smaller unit market falling, well then, so be it.

thoth - The data is clear on the market correction, the fact that there are examples of that correction is not really noteworthy in my opinion.

really? then why are you reading this?

Keep up the good work AR, I'll keep my mouth shut.

oh spinny, i'd be most disappointed if you kept your mouth shut.

i'm just reporting. and with some bias, but not a huge amount.

your market is stronger, btw, for the 2+ bedrooms (compared to both 2005 and 2009, although you did worse in 2009 than most markets) than midtown and ues. but right now i'm just dealing with the smaller market on the uws. you need to break these things down to deal with them, and i'm kind of tired of comps.

what bias?

how much of a fucktard?

Kind of Pavlovian, I must say.

Me too, I had you in Piaget's Intuitive Phase of development.

118 W 79th #4B. Up 25% form 2004 and up 3% from #8B a year ago. Quick sale at $2,315,000, slightly above ask.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/515079-coop-118-west-79th-street-upper-west-side-new-york

Up 2% from 2007 before renovation and transaction costs.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/498216-coop-336-west-end-avenue-upper-west-side-new-york

118 W. 79th was bought by NYTimes business writer Aaron Ross Sorkin. I guess his latest book deal paid off.

Seg - so they are down anywhere from 15-30% from 2007 depending on the renovation (not to mention that so many have to live elsewhere while renovating, so two residences for the length of the reno). That sucks.

Re: 118 w. 79th - Looks like the sellers did the renovation (assumption based on the look of the kitchen). If so, they probably sold quickly because got back what they had in it (and maybe a bit more?).

#4E (discussed at http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/11005-44-west-77th) finally sold, up a hair from 2004: http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/447604-coop-44-west-77th-street-upper-west-side-new-york

12/10/2004 Previous Sale recorded for $5,400,000.
01/15/2009 Previously Listed by Corcoran at $6,400,000.
08/20/2009 Corcoran Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $5,900,000.
08/25/2009 Listed by Brown Harris Stevens at $5,900,000.
09/07/2009 Price decreased by 3% to $5,750,000.
03/30/2010 Listing entered contract.
07/30/2010 Sale recorded for $5,650,000.

The kitchen, baths and central AC were done in 1994/1995.

333 WEA #5A. Classic 6.

Down 13% from the 2007 'bubble' sale (plus fees + taxes) or a $262,500+ loss of equity. This apt was is good shape with a renovated kitchen, but suffered from a lack of light. The discount from the peak is fairly typical of the general move in the C6-UWS market.

The direction of the next move is currently a hotly debated subject. Given the move up from 2001 - 2007, and the recent data on the economy and Wall Street trading profitability, I'd guess we are headed lower. (8/12/10)

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/486740-coop-333-west-end-avenue-upper-west-side-new-york

03/01/2007 Previous Sale recorded for $2,025,000.
01/22/2009 Previously Listed by Brown Harris Stevens at $2,400,000.
02/11/2009 Brown Harris Stevens Listing is no longer available.
02/17/2009 Previously Listed by Bellmarc at $2,400,000.
09/28/2009 Bellmarc Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $2,099,000.
01/04/2010 Listed by Bellmarc at $1,850,000.
05/24/2010 Listing entered contract.
08/06/2010 Sale recorded for $1,762,500.

Might have been worthy for the 'price chopper' thread as well.

333 West End Avenue #5A: Prewar six-into-five closed 13% below early 2007 basis.
10/22/2006 Previously Listed by Corcoran at $2,200,000.
03/01/2007 Previous Sale recorded for $2,025,000.
01/22/2009 Previously Listed by Brown Harris Stevens at $2,400,000.
02/11/2009 Brown Harris Stevens Listing is no longer available.
02/17/2009 Previously Listed by Bellmarc at $2,400,000.
09/28/2009 Bellmarc Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $2,099,000.
01/04/2010 Listed by Bellmarc at $1,850,000.
05/24/2010 Listing entered contract.
08/06/2010 Sale recorded for $1,762,500.
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/486740-coop-333-west-end-avenue-upper-west-side-new-york
Two apartments at 333 WEA changed hands in 2007. Both have resold in 2010, at similar losses. #9B, a corner seven-into-five, dropped 12.5%.
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/484833-coop-333-west-end-avenue-upper-west-side-new-york
#9B was a quick sale with multiple bids. #5A was an eighteen-month ordeal. The end result was the same.

110 West 86th St. #10A: Prewar 5.5 closed 6.7% below early 2008 basis. This building continues to hold value rather well, suggesting that the scarcity of prewar condos provides some degree of price support.
07/28/2000 Previous Sale recorded for $905,000.
07/23/2004 Previous Sale recorded for $1,295,000.
01/09/2008 Listed by Prudential Elliman at $1,875,000.
01/18/2008 Listing entered contract.
04/07/2008 Sale recorded for $1,875,000.
04/22/2010 Later Listed by Halstead Property at $1,750,000.
08/03/2010 Sale recorded for $1,749,000.
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/165233-condo-110-west-86th-street-upper-west-side-new-york

West81 - our prewar building on w 81 is also holding value. Prices are down about 3-5% from peak on 1-beds. Great buyers too - get to review them as a board member.

155 West 70th, H line, "Jr one bedroom." Down 20% from a lower floor peak comp. The price series back to the same unit previous sale in 2002 is a reminder of how much pricing accelerated in the early '00s. 20% off peak is still 7.3% compounded growth from 2002-2010. What's that, inflation + 5%-ish for 8 years or maybe a 45% real increase in price?

08/02/2010 #12H $527,500
01/10/2008 #3H $660,000
12/08/2006 #9H $585,000
11/04/2005 #10H $600,000
03/14/2003 #14H $420,000
03/14/2003 #6H $420,000
07/11/2002 #16H $386,000
06/25/2002 #12H $300,000

OTNYC: Thanks for the color. The strength in prewar condos is far from uniform. Here's one that did less well:
220 West 93rd Street #12C: 2BR/1BA condo. Recent conversion. Resold 11% below 2007 sponsor sale.
10/11/2006 Previously Listed by Halstead Property at $1,035,000.
04/30/2007 Halstead Property Listing sold. Last priced at $980,000.
08/06/2007 Previous Sale recorded for $997,885.
10/13/2009 Listed by Corcoran at $1,120,000.
11/11/2009 Price decreased by 4% to $1,075,000.
12/01/2009 Price decreased by 5% to $1,020,000.
12/11/2009 Price decreased by 2% to $999,000.
03/17/2010 Price decreased by 2% to $979,000.
05/07/2010 Listing entered contract.
07/30/2010 Sale recorded for $887,500.

Aside from the apartment's own shortcomings, the difficulty of obtaining a mortgage in a building under 40% sold may have been a factor here. Established condos with high owner-occ percentages seem to be performing better.

On additional note on 220 West 93rd #12C: The seller borrowed $881K to fund her purchase, so the sale for $887.5K, less commissions and other expenses, is an equity wipeout (and then some).

While we're on the building, what do people think of PHB? I know the most recent sellers pumped 300K into it after their purchase at $1.395 and then, in meshugenah fashion, put it on for $3M. After a zillion drops, it sold for $1.625M. But what about $1.625M? Still too high? A great deal? Discuss...

02/08/2008Previous Sale recorded for $1,395,000.
06/05/2008Previously Listed by Sotheby's International Realty, Inc. at $2,995,000.
08/20/2008Sotheby's International Realty, Inc. Listing is no longer available.
08/17/2009Previously Listed by Sotheby's International Realty, Inc. at $2,350,000.
03/01/2010Sotheby's International Realty, Inc. Listing is no longer available. Last priced at $1,775,000.
03/25/2010Listed by Sotheby's International Realty, Inc. at $1,699,000.
04/14/2010Listing entered contract.
06/15/2010Listing sold.
06/15/2010Sale recorded for $1,625,000.

2yrs. Leveraged $1.3mm at risk and you pay the transaction cost. Nice trade!

As to buyer, $1.6mm 'bet' bubble hit bottom..... They didn't even take a pound of flesh from the flipper. It ends badly for them also. 93rd St is pretty far north IMHO. Why not 100th street, that's right the projects.

On 12C in 220 W 93rd, another unit in the same line has an asking rent of $3800. Assuming an interest rate of 6% (too lazy to actually look it up), I think this owner ended up paying in the neighborhood of $9500 a month all-in after tax benefits for the 3 years. Flushed $342K down the toilet buying instead of $137K renting...

rsm321: Even $1.625MM is hard to justify on a rent-vs.buy basis, but it's not as though there are a lot of apartments like this available for rent. If you loved the renovation and could figure out a way to build up the terrace so the views would be more viewable, this one might be attractive as an entry-level trophy for a couple or a single person. On the downside, the low owner-occ rate in the building would scare me.

w67: 93rd is good for access to the express train. I agree that it's far from the Best of the West. As for projects, that's more Amsterdam than Broadway. Or did you mean Ariel?

180 RSD "D"-line. Down 12% from 2007 comp and flat from 2005 sale four floors up.

08/05/2010 #6D $2,330,000 (+6% from ask)
07/13/2007 #7D $2,650,000
04/05/2005 #10D $2,325,000

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/517414-coop-180-riverside-drive-upper-west-side-new-york

173 Riverside Drive high-floor "B" line: Natural eight-room duplex with open southern exposure, but no real park or river views.

10/11B is a wreck that languished through 2009.
03/09/2009 Listed by Halstead Property at $3,850,000.
08/23/2009 Listing entered contract.
11/23/2009 Listing is no longer available.
11/28/2009 Re-listed by Halstead Property.
11/28/2009 Price decreased by 7% to $3,585,000.
02/19/2010 Listing entered contract.
07/20/2010 Sale recorded for $3,275,014
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/390492-coop-173-riverside-drive-upper-west-side-new-york

12/13B was in very good renovated condition and sold in about two months.
03/09/2010 Listed by Brown Harris Stevens at $4,650,000.
05/19/2010 Listing entered contract.
08/11/2010 Sale recorded for $4,600,000.
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/501035-coop-173-riverside-drive-upper-west-side-new-york

Although the two apartments closed within three weeks of each other, they went to contract three months apart. Personally, I would attribute most of the 40% premium for 12/13B to buyers' reluctance to tackle a gut reno; but there's probably an element of market movement here too. $1.3MM+ is a huge spread for a renovation that was already showing some age.

291 Central Park West #4W: Attractive 4BR condo in an odd building carved from the Dwight School. Closed 41.7% above the owners' 2000 basis - a decent return, but considerably less than they were hoping for. The real news here, I think, is the small premium over #5W, which was in much worse condition and traded for $2.25MM near the height of the financial crisis.
04/12/1998 Previous Sale recorded for $726,000.
06/21/2000 Previous Sale recorded for $1,800,000.
04/24/2009 Listed by Brown Harris Stevens at $3,390,000.
09/30/2009 Price decreased by 9% to $3,100,000.
11/17/2009 Price decreased by 3% to $2,995,000.
03/06/2010 Price decreased by 5% to $2,850,000.
05/18/2010 Price decreased by 5% to $2,699,000.
08/10/2010 Listing entered contract.
09/03/2010 Sale recorded for $2,550,000.
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/building/291-central-park-west-manhattan

i think the appreciation from 1998-2000 is the most interesting part of the pricing history. that was really the boom period for new york real estate following the flat decade from late 80s to late 90s.

the 41% return over the past decade only seems decent because of the poor stock market performance over that period. in truth, it represents 3.5% a year appreciation, far below the treasury bond yield over that period. as a risk-adjusted return it is nothing short of lousy, and once carrying and transaction costs are added in the return comes dangerously close to zero.

Ouch!

80 Riverside Drive 14B The Rushmore. Apparently resale values are not holding up

09/11/2007
Previously Listed by Corcoran at $3,550,000.
02/07/2008
Corcoran Listing sold.
03/10/2009
Listed by Corcoran at $3,550,000.
04/16/2009
Listing sold.
08/07/2009
Sale recorded for $3,614,787.
09/08/2010
Sale recorded for $3,050,000.

With transaction costs that is almost a million dollar loss.

So who bought Summer 2009 and sold Summer 2010? I don't get that...moving job abroad? Foreigner moved here, them moved back?

142 West 82nd, #8. Same unit resale of a 1/1 down 10% from 2004.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/470981-coop-142-west-82nd-street-upper-west-side-new-york
11/17/2004 Previous Sale recorded for $460,000.
10/14/2009 Listed by Prudential Elliman at $550,000.
10/19/2009 Price decreased by 5% to $520,000.
10/29/2009 Price decreased by 5% to $495,000.
11/10/2009 Price decreased by 4% to $475,000.
12/01/2009 Price decreased by 5% to $450,000.
12/16/2009 Listing is no longer available.
12/31/2009 Listing entered contract.
02/25/2010 Re-listed by Prudential Elliman.
04/29/2010 Price decreased by 6% to $425,000.
06/08/2010 Listing sold.
09/10/2010 Sale recorded for $412,500.

Rushmore: "Apparently resale values are not holding up"

Technically that should be resale "value is" not holding up, as opposed to "values are". There have only been two resales and one of them was above cost

Also, this is not close to a $1mm loss with costs. Maybe $750k-ish, though

"142 West 82nd, #8"

Wow... what a lousy layout. It's a duplex, with the kitchen downstairs and the BR & LR upstairs. That, to me, is one of the worst designs ever.