Kalahari

Overpriced in this downward market. The Kalahari is directly across the street from one of the worst Housing Projects in Harlem, proceed at your own risk!

This is probably the best new developments in Harlem. It is 85% sold out and closed, unlike many others in the area. (Graceline Court, just down the block, has not even closed 30% of its units.) Well designed, nice amenities. The project is on 115th St. (back of the building). I have not heard of any problems with it, but I would not want to be walking alone there at 2 am. Prices listed on SE are too high - if you look at closed sales, you will see that prices have come down into the mid $500 range. Most units left for sale are their best units, 3 and 4 BRs on the penthouse floors. If you want to live in Harlem, this is your best options, IMO.

Ugly looking building on the outside.

I saw the four bedroom duplex a couple of weeks ago, nice outdoor space.

Prices are way too high, but the agent told me the prices were negotiable three times. For some perspective, I was quoted $1.36M for the mirror unit in the summer of 2007, now it's listed for $1.6M. The units in this building will likely retain more value in the long term because of the generous tax abatement program (20 year abatement, then 5 year phase in) and low common charges, but on the other hand valuations may be kept down because of the near-50% of the units being reserved for moderate income buyers with income restrictions. I had heard that the developer was basically given the land on 116th to develop by the city, so they have a lot of room for negotiation.

They actually upgraded the appliances from the model unit for the larger apartments, from KitchenAid if I recall to Viking. Unit was nice, but master was very small. If you remove the WIC would work much better. Seemed well constructed, people have always had good things to say about the developer (who did the condo next door at the corner of 5th Avenue as well). Building has a good vibe, if you're into that kind of thing.

Wouldn't touch it right now with a ten-foot pole. But if it or a similar unit is available in a couple of years, and Harlem hasn't imploded, I might be persuaded. If you're interested spend some time in the neighborhood. I found it to be amazingly friendly (they even made small talk at the Duane Reede), vibrant. 116th and above seems much better to me, below seems a bit sketchy, and I'm sad to report that I found it a bit rougher this visit than in 2007. Crime, however, has been very low in the Central Harlem area, lower than many other areas that intuitively would seem safer.

The Kalahari is the best of the new developments in Harlem. And they are being aggressive in trying to sell, meaning they are very open to negotiation. They have sold a few of the smaller units in the past couple of months. The bigger, more expensive units aren't moving and probably won't until they come down another 30 to 40 percent.

Its the best that is open. Once 5thonthepark opens, it will blow Kalahari away. Unfortunately, sales at 5thonthepark will be a trickle at best.

I was told the Kalahari was 90% sold via a housing lottery and the sales info could be found on acris.

The Kalahari was half sold via the housing lottery. The other half were offered market rate, and about 80% of those have sold, so about 90% of the building has sold.

jason, I fear that 5thonthePark isn't going to make it.

Shitty area. Uninteresting common corridors. Nice finishes in the units, but not worth the asking prices.

Sticky,

Nothing is worth the asking prices anywhere in NYC today.

5thonthepark is also much, much higher in prices. . .meaning they ain't gonna sell any very soon.

5thonthepark has sold over half the units (and I am backing out the announced amount of those backing out before closing) with about 1/3 owned by the Church it bought air rights from for rentals. So really it only needs to sell 15% of so of the total units to "make it." Its also opening in two weeks. What is likely to happen is since the JV that built it is bankrupt that it will be foreclosed on and the remaining units rented or auctioned by the bank, but the lenders won't walk away from a building that will open 85% occupied and is 99% completed.

Well, really, 50% occupied and 35% to-be-rented.

I do think the church in question will be shocked at how low their rents will have to go however. Harlem luxury rentals are SOOOOOOOOO cheap right now, and I mean even more so than lower-end rentals versus below 110th. As in a 2k walk up in GV would go for 1-1.5k in Harlem, but a 12k penthouse in GV would go for 5k or less in Harlem. Just browse on streeteasy in the 4k-6k price range in Harlem. You can get 3000 SF brand new places.

jason, your rental point is a good one, but it also would make purchasing in 5thonthepark an even dumber proposition. i'll have to see how many people go ahead and close. i'm trying to figure out your numbers, they don't seem to indicate much room for purchasers with potential financing problems.

color me skeptical.

Actually, the Kalahari listings are moving - and quite fast considering the market. Four new contracts were signed over the past few days. I'm a bit puzzled considering the location and current state of the RE market.

I suspect they're selling them at a high discount. Plus, the cc and taxes are remarkably low, and the loans are conforming and probably not that difficult to get. For someone who wants new construction, and doesn't mind Harlem, this is easy to accomplish.

What's a high discount? 20%? 30%?

I would guess so. Prices went up about 20% from early sales, so I'd guess they have at least that much room. this seems kind of like the Charleston, at this point they just want to get rid of the units. i'm sure they are grateful they could start closing when they did, or this would have been a fright show.

Makes sense. Thanks for all the info

5th on the Park, for all it's luxury amenities, is just not located in a good spot, as compared to the Kalahari. There are no supermarkets close by; the subway is a further away. . .there's only scant businesses from 116th to 120th on Fifth. It's a ghost town.

The bigger units of the Kalahari are not moving as quickly as the smaller, less expensive ones, for obvious reasons.

I think 5th on the park will probably loose money, sure. But close down and remain abandoned, no. TO me that is what "fail" means. It will be fully occupied, just not with as fancy a class of folk as the developer or bankers had hoped.

Kalahari has many bigger units for rent via investors, not all of which are reflected on streeteasy. In time, I think the developer will start renting those too.

Ditto for Fitzgerald and Soha118.

To me there are two levels of failure, the most gruesome is obviously a building that doesn't open. But almost worse as a buyer is one that opens but then fails to sell. Or where the units are immediately undercut by fire sales due to a bankruptcy proceeding.

Actually, with the new mortgage sales percentage requirements, there will be more buildings that do fail in the grander scheme of things.

5thonthepark was horribly overpriced given the market in which it was competing. i haven't seen it since the early days, right after the sales office opened, but i got the sense that relatively inexperienced developers were playing a risky game by creating a downtown style environment (complete with the bells and whistles that lead to high common charges) in a location that was marginal within the margins. i don't recall, but how does the tax situation compare to the Kalahari's?

similar, a they have lower common charges per $1 of sales price, strangely, too boot. THAT will likely change real fast.

I'm renting one of those big investor units (1700+ square feet with outdoor space). I negotiated a great deal with no downsides for me whatsoever. I'm parking myself there for at least a year to wait for the Harlem market bottom, and to decide whether I in fact like living there (I sold my place in Chelsea in the fall and have been living on the UWS. Kalahari may be the best of the new developments, but I wouldn't buy there. My main concern is with all that unsold/unleased retail space on the street level of the building. I don't see anything happening there for a long, long while.

Cherry,

Your concern about the retail space is correct. But it's that way all over Harlem. . .not to mention the Upper West Side as well. Finally there will be retail in the Kalahari; of all things a furniture store, probably the least needed service.

UWS below 86th too?

Four empty storefronts on 72nd between B'way and WEA.

It's citywide, though, obviously, worse in Harlem.

I'm renting around the corner from the Kalahari, and looking to buy. The prices in the Kalahari are absurd (the units I saw were easily $200K to $400K overpriced). If you think the Empire State Building, lit up and peering back at you all by its lonesome from BETWEEN THE PROJECTS is glamorous, then by, all means, cut that $1M-plus check. And I'm sorry, Viking appliances add a couple grand to the cost of the kitchen, not a couple hundred grand. I do get turned off by large buildings, and the hallways here felt long and like a rats' maze. I also notice as I pass each day that nearly everyone going in seems to be well below age 30. Call me crazy, but to me that says: people in and out, loud parties, general DRAAMAAA, and a folks who just aren't going to care about the building that much. I wouldn't want to buy into a place like this.

I think jiwhit is right about buying in the Kalahari, although I am prepared to rent there for the next 12-18 months, by which time I think the Harlem correction will be well enough along to consider buying (40-50% down from peak). It will be interesting to see how many owners in the Kalahari will be trying to rent by January 2010.

Try by June. There are several for rent oncraigslist and this site, and many more that have already rented. That is probably where the under 30 crown comes from.

jiwhit, they are not closing at those prices. there are about 30-35 units left. they seem to be closing a few a month. if you are interested, particularly in the larger units, my guess is that they may take an offer 40% off in October or so. Just a guess, but they are getting to that point where they have sold enough to cover and make some money, and now they'd just like to sell to have owners cover the common charges, and close this chapter if they can. This is, as I've said, a development that had very lucky timing. It could have been a freak show.

Speaking of freak shows, a unit closed in 5th on the Park, but only one shows up so far. Any of you investigative types want to take a shot at figuring out if it was arms length? Although they could also have given someone a buyback guarantee just to get the job done. We live in interesting real estate time. Jason, I hadn't noticed the cc issue. You're right, there's no way. Kalahari made a deliberate decision not to go the amenity route.

What is the name of the housing project across the street from the Kalahari?

Martin Luther King Jr. Houses

http://www.nyc-architecture.com/HAR/HAR018.htm

That housing project could become a problem for Kalahari residents, particularly those in the "B" building which fronts directly onto the project. I'm renting there and a couple of weeks ago heard what I later confirmed were gunshots. Unfortunately, I don't sense a visible or effective police presence there.

I wouldn't consider the B building. And I'm an intrepid sort. It's just that why would you, when the A building is available and much better situated?