Cost to paint and install hardwood floors?

yes.

yes.

of course.

that's definitely true

depends

So instead of mocking, can you actually provide assistance?

call a contractor and get him into your apartment and ask away. if you don't know a contractor, you must know someone who does. or...you can ask ridiculous questions on anonymous boards and hope for the best.

NYC - painting is b/w $800 - $1200 per room, floors, installed will cost you about $10K for your size apartment (parts + labor, including removal) assuming standard wood (nothing exotic), moldings are another 2-3K. We loved our contractor, happy to recommend him - email me at otnyc1_at_gmail_._com.

I own a 650 sq ft one bedroom, a couple of years ago I removed all the original parquet flooring, installed new hardwood throughout and had to replace the molding, and paid around $20,000, you really need to shop around and get a lot of estimates, which I didn't do.

do you see my point yet?

p.s. can anyone help me out...how much for a two bedroom, two bathroom in a nice section of ny?

OMG, you are a contractors dream. Get LOTS of estimates. If he wants incremental payments, hold back final 25% until job is complete to your satisfaction. Contractors are hungry now -use it to your advantage. You're allowed to be clueless just don't allow yourself to be target for some sleazeball. Check references and don't assume the lowest price is the best. Accomplished sleazeballs bait you with a low price and charm you into the poorhouse.

Go to home depot and lowes. They are offering no interest for like 2 years if you spend over $300.

I purchased a similar size coop last year and needed all rooms painted (3 colors / room; ceilings, moldings, and walls). I actaully had someone quote me $30,000! I ended up going with Michael Kuhn of Mike's Painting. He is a one man show (although he gets help when needed) and did an EXCELLENT job. He was very neat and professional. He was also very reasonably priced...at around $8,000 for everything (Benj Moore paints, supplies, etc., labot). I would recommend him without reservation. He is also Manhattan based...if that matters.

His contact number is 212.874.2303 and 917.714.3388.

Lumber Liquidators has cheap hardwoods.

I wouldn't do the hardwoods myself, but I must be really cheap because right now I'm painting our apartment myself (the hubby does the up high areas as I don't like ladders, and the daughter does the baseboard areas because I creak too much to be down on the floor). We don't have to do the ceilings, but we are still using three colors per major room (two for the kitchen and hallway), and I think $1000 will cover it easily with Behr for some of the rooms and Benj. M for the master bedroom.

Here's what is making it hard to estimate: (1) Sq. footage is one thing, but configuration, info re the mouldings, condition of the walls, height of the ceilings, # of coats of paint you want, # and type of windows that could complicate the job... all that matters. (2) If you are ripping out the floor then you are removing base moulding which could damage walls and that requires some patching. What type of subflooring is found and its condition matters. There will be a difference for prefinsihed, laminates, and traditional hardwood that is finished on sight. Difficulty of debris removal and building policies could affect final costs, too.

Get some real estimates and then you'll have more info to proceed with.

kylewest is right that there's a lot of variation here, but this sounds like a $20K job to me. btw, $4-$5/ft sounds a little cheap for flooring.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

You should contact Jerzy Flooring for an estimate. They did a fabulous job for a friend of mine. His # is (718) 591-5926.

Personally, and just for my own enlightenment, I would like to see if we can categorize the kind of renovations that can be done in an apt., and then continue throwing around numbers (and getting scolded by columbiacounty) My purpose is to see how much I should deduct by listings that need either total gut, substantial reno, or just light reno. So:

1) Total gut: I guess this one implies doing electric and some plumbing or something else (maybe celinings) on top of everything standard.
2) Complete updating: repaint, floors, update bathroom and kitchen tiles, change kitchen cabinets, maybe change some bathroom fixtures, etc. The kind of things you would do with an estate that is not totally ruined.
3) Substantial updating: same as 2) but lighter.
4) Painting and some appliances.

Am I missing something?

What about recessed lighting? Here I would imagine you would need a contractor and an electrician? Or can most contractors also install lighting? Lighting would only need to be installed in living/dining area. The lights themselves seem pretty cheap, so I'm assuming the cost comes in the installation and wiring?

You're right, there are lot of nuances I'm not considering. I should also point out that something in between a really light reno and a more substantial one would be when you refinish the floors instead of replacing them. I just want to collect info very ballpark, to be able to add in my head when I see certain listings or go to OHs.

That's what I've been trying to do as well!!!!

I spoke with someone at NY Closets and she said a 6' wide closet starts at $600 (white) and $660 (wood). That price includes rods for hanging and open shelves. Each drawer costs $100 additional. A linen closet is less expensive. I figure for a 2 bedroom apartment with one hall/coat closet, pantry closet, linen closet, 2 bedroom closets it would cost around $3000. To me that sounds like a lot of money, but I've only checked out NY Closets on 81st and 3rd.

Some insight: Janovic will help you find a painter. A lot in the city buy from there, you may meet on your own while you are there. And from there, almost all are co-op insured! As for closets, I used Spacemaster Closets at (212) 382-1533. They ripped out and rebuilt, and were so helpful on layout. Not sure how they compare on price to what you were quoted. If you are handy, have Container Store spec it out for you as well. Very easy to install...and I believe they will install as well.

Trompiloco, I don't think your breakdown will work. The real question is how many trades you need to have in the place and for how long. Materials are almost inconsequential in terms of final cost. Marble for a bathroom may run $1500, and fixtures another $3000, but the labor for demo, replumbing, rewiring, and retiling will leave you spending $40,000 on the space.

If you reno an entire apartment but need no electrical work, it can cost less than reno for the living room that also requires rewiring and new lighting. There are too many variable to easily break it down. If you are serious about an apartment, you need to have an architect take a look at it (or contractor if you have a trusted one who won't low ball his estimate) and then bid accordingly. There is no forumlaic short cut. That is why an architect will tell you a renovation can range from $150-450+/sq.ft. What you are doing and your level of finishes will change the sq/ft price up or down down 100s of %.

Trompiloco, since the best way to maximize your real estate asset is to do renovations in line with the quality of the property, you also need to give us your purchasing budget.

$20K in renovations will go a long way in a $400K studio, but in a $2 million loft, it won't even buy kitchen appliances.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

Kylewest, you're most likely right. But for a complete ignoramus like myself, I have to start somewhere. My level of finishes is cheap but with passable design, which I take to mean IKEA. What I would really like to know is how people decide, from either reading a description, looking at pics, or going to an OH, that an apt. needs new plumbing, or new electric. I understand that you can see it needs to refinish or replace floors, repaint, change tiles, etc. Also, how many of those things are choices. For example, if the circuit capacity is enough, do some people chose to redo the electric to have more outlets? or because it's safer, if it hasn't been updated in, say, 20 years?

ballpark, what's the most you could spend in a 1000 sqft apt to reno with IKEA level finishes...

"ballpark, what's the most you could spend in a 1000 sqft apt to reno with IKEA level finishes..."

Alright. I'll play this game. How many bathrooms? How many bedrooms. Are the walls in decent shape or do they have to be overhauled? Can you salvage the floors or must they be replaced, too?

2 br, 2 bt (or 1.5), the kind of place that is advertised as 1200 sqft but is 1000 when you go at it with a measuring tape. Walls decent if repainted. Replace floors.

holy crap, paint the place yourself and leave the floors alone.

consider yourself scolded.

ali r., my budget is 650K, and since that, presently, would only buy 1000 sqft in need of repair, that's the reason for my inquiries. Of course, given that I don't have more than 650K for the purchase, it goes without saying that I don't have 150K for repairs.

Oh that's easy then, you're not doing an "A" level renovation such as cutting channels so that wiring doesn't show.

You want to spend $635K initially so you have $15K to do floors (which will extend their lifespan and is the one thing that is very hard to do when the place is occupied) and glaze a bathtub before you move in. Maybe if you can do it on that budget, you have the contractors paint the ceiling in the LR, since ceilings are a pain. You paint the walls yourself.

Three years down the road, when you have more cash, you spend $15K on the bathroom -- modernizing and bringing the electrics up to code, putting in nicer lighting, changing some tile around and painting -- but not completely taking out all the old tile to replace the plumbing behind the wall if you can help it, and you're probably getting decent looking Home Depot cabinetry and fixtures (I just did a bath to this level at the beach and it cost me about $8K, so I figure double is about right for the city).

Then three to four years after that, you spend $30K on your kitchen. You may have to move out for a month and get the floors redone at this time. Then you sell within three years of that, so your kitchen reno isn't too "old."

Your reno costs are roughly $60K, spread over ten years. For budgeting purposes, you're assuming you're spending $10K per year on reno over the first six years in addition to your mortgage and maint. If you're putting 20% down, you're paying around $4500 monthly (depending on your co-op's maint charges) for housing including your reno budget.

Another way to look at it is that if you are passing a board at 25% without renovating, your "real" housing cost with renovating will be about 30% of your income, which is quite doable. If you intend to pass a board at 30% without renovating, your housing costs will be at 36% of your income -- tighter but still eminently possible.

That's my take; I am interested in hearing other people's take on this as well.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

don't buy...rent.

I have rehabbed many apartments/SFHs for my own use and learned early on that there are so many of these repairs that you can do yourself and save a boatload of money. After I received an estimate of over $100,000 for what you are seeking to do (basic painting on good walls, new floor mouldings, and installing new hardwoods throughout) I decided to leave only the plumbing and electrical jobs to the pros. I watched a ton of DIY shows, attended those goofy home depot seminars on weekends and joined a ton of online message boards to learn the proper way of doing all this work myself. Since I was going to be the one who was living in the homes, I thought the only real way of personalizing the places was to do all the work on my own.
After I 'edumacated' myself enough to have the confidence to accomplish this goal, I ended up saving $80,000 from the original estimate and totally had a blast doing the work on my own. Twenty years and 6 homes later, I have to say my work rivals, if not exceeds, most 'professionals' out there. I have gone from painting to actually refinishing/installing floors, installing tiles, windows, doors, outdoor fences and porches, etc.
I understand that living in the city you probably don't have the time to tackle this project yourself, but with a bit of research and pro advice, you can at least tackle the painting portion of this job and with the $$$ you save doing your own work......well vacation time!!
Just one word of advice if you are still seeking advice and estimates.....do some homework on the topics so when you initally sit down to get estimates you have a solid understanding of the work you are seeking to have done. Diving into this project the way you worded this question is only an invitation to be severely ripped off by pro posers....and there are hundreds of willing thieves out there who would be more than willing to take your $$ and produce infrerior products and provide poor workmanship. Good Luck!! Oh yeah, off the top of my head for the items you mentioned in your initial question, I would say no more than $60k depending on the level of materials and the condition of your walls, mouldings and assuming your floors are level.

front_porch, buca, thanks a lot. The apartment doesn't exist as of now. My question was geared mostly as an hypothetical so that I know how much to add to the asking price of apartments that are, according the selling agents themselves, in bad condition. For example, I recently saw a listing on the UES (70s and 2nd ave.) for a 2 br/1 bt. that had 950 sqft (so, of course, it was listed as 1200) for 575K. Low maintenance, full service doorman bldg. My estimate is that it is undercutting most other listings by at least 120K. No interior pics, and the ad says it's in "functional" condition, whatever that means. So I was just wondering. If 60K would put it OK, it may be a good deal. If you need 150K it is not.

By 'functional' the apt in question will have the basic electrical, plumbing and fixtures in working order. I also take it as telling you that you will have to do your own cosmetic work (refinishing, repairing drywall, painting, replacing floors or tiles) to personalize it to your tastes.
When a listing or agent says it is in 'bad condition, generally plan on doing much more intensive work such as plumbing, bringing the electrical systems up to code, perhaps no toilets or sinks/tubs, etc. In other words if you were to pay say...$250k for the unit plan on putting at least one half $125k into it to make it livable.
One other thing that I look for when purchasing a home that has been 'rehabbed' previously is the level of expertise that was employed in doing the rehab. Because of the outrageous greed in flipping properties over the last 10 years, many supposedly professional renovators did a less than stellar job of rehabbing and you end up having to go through to correct their work or to dig deeper to see if unfinished projects were just covered up instead of fixed properly.
Proceed with caution and remember, that housing inspector is your best friend now!!

> NYC - painting is b/w $800 - $1200 per room

I had an entire one bedroom painted for less than that...

and you can get an entire car painted for $450. but....

Ali's reply is worth second-ing. If we're talking generalities, I think she answers your questions.

If you want a great paint job at a great value, go to any Janovic paint before 9am during the week and you'll find 20 guys standing outside who will paint like machines for about $100/ day.

My building recommended a contractor who quoted me $1600 to paint 2 rooms over the course of 2-3 days. I decided to paint it myself and went to Janovic to order paint and pick up supplies (about $200). When I went back the next morning to pick up the paint, there were 20 guys out front looking for work. I took one of them with me, and he painted both rooms (2 coats) working non-stop from 8:30 - 5:30 with only a 45 minute lunch break (I did all the taping). He only asked for $80...I gave him $120. Total cost: $340.

FWIW, if you are talking about a co-op, forget unlicensed workers. Recipe for potential disaster. Building won't allow it, your insurance likely won't cover you, you have no idea whom you are inviting into the building or your apartment. Damage to halls/elevator with ladders/paint, improper disposal of materials, damage to your apartment from carelessness--you'll be the one wishing you had spent the money to do it properly. This is not a good big city avenue to pursue. That's my take, but to each his/her own.

I've painted an apt 3x by myself. It was 800 sq/ft, 12 ft high walls and popcorn ceilings. It was a hateful, time-consuming, exhausting job. The tape, cutting in, primer, 2 coats of paint, oil for frames/kitchen/bath/door with latex for walls, the drop cloths, the spackling and sanding to prep.... I hated it. But I did it because I didn't have the money back then to pay a few thousand dollars to hire out the work. I didn't do it because I thought it would be an easy way to save a buck--it ain't easy.

Am I the only weirdo out there who enjoys painting? I can't imagine paying someone to do it for me. I did everything in my current two bedroom place myself. Taping the kitchen and bathroom were a pain, and I had to do several coats on the bathroom, which is navy and gets tons of light, but I found it almost relaxing. Plus, there's a pretty big reward for effort. Then again, I like getting my hands dirty.

To be fair, my current apartment is 850 square feet, so I had a bigger space and needed the job done faster, I would consider hiring help.

no, wishhouse, i think there is another painting thread from the last few days in which a number of us confessed to finding the job both a decent time and rewarding. you're right, it's the speed one needs that might promote hiring help even for the diy people.

when we were younger a friend's family asked if we'd like to come over (along with two other young couples) for a 4th of July weekend of painting (exterior, two story), grilling, and beer consumption. i'm not sure i'd survive it today, but it was one of my all-time favorite weekends.

I'm not sure if anyone here can help me, but I figure it's worth asking ... I also don't know where else to post this ... HEAT/AC UNITS: In every rental apt I've been in, the heat/ac radiator units built into the wall (not window) haven't really worked well. The bedroom ones would be sufficient since the room is smaller, but the living room ones don't function well at all. When I say radiators, I mean the typical units that the building manager controls and puts the AC on around Memorial Day and the heat on around Oct 31. My question comes to buying an apt that also has these units. It seems silly (and painful) to me to buy an apt (whether it's $600k or $1million) that has heat/AC units that may or may not function well. What recourse does a buyer have when purchasing an apt with these type of units? If I buy now and the building doesn't turn on the AC until Memorial Day then I will never know if the AC actually works. How can this be ok??? If the unit doesn't blow hot or cold air, is it my responsibility since I bought the place? How are problems like this fixed??? This is a huge fear for buying.

you might want to consider new development down the road with individual unit controls.

my problem was even worse. my daughter had asthma (started one week after 9/11, at age 5, gee, glad the streets were so safe). we had an apartment as you mentioned, and a daughter who ran extremely warm, and if we opened the windows before the ac went on she'd have an asthma attack due to her seasonal allergies. our ac system broke down a couple of times and we had to move to a hotel.

one of the reasons i was happy to move to peter cooper with its old-fashioned radiators and window ac units.

to be more helpful, i think if you hire someone to do a structural engineering report, they could probably test the system.

I assume you can only test the system AFTER your bid is accepted. Very frustrating b/c if we had to change the units, then that would affect my bid. I've heard of people ripping out the radiator units and installing individual AC units in the walls, but I assume that's very $$$$$$!

yes, but it is after your bid is accepted and before the contract is singed. do some research. it will obviously depend on the building.

i personally don't give a .... if my ac unit is in my window. oh, my, how lacking class i might be. i need ac in the winter because of the daughter's allergies, so....

Oh I'd rather have window units of AC than radiator units. I don't care about blocking a view or anything... I care about being cool and comfortable in an apt I'm spending an arm and a leg for!!!!!!!!!!!

i don't see how the system can be tested until its turned on building wide. plus, i would assume that temperature of water going through the system is subject to building control and can be changed how and when they choose. i think you said it correctly in the first place---why pay so much money for something that is so flawed from your perspective?

we had fancy through the wall air conditioning (individual units) installed in our apartment years ago -- have had the exact same experience...works ok in smaller rooms, doesn't really cool larger ones. after many, many service trips, one installer told me that bottom line they don't work as well as window units because of less exposed space for heat exchange as well as the mere fact that they are closer to the floor.

i guess if you really love an apartment you could add window units if the window structure allowed for it. in our condo it wasn't possible, but in some it is. our units worked generally quite well when functioning, and we had a large living room, but there was that seasonality issue.

also need to make sure building allows and their is enough electricity available.

Since this is reno thread..

How much would it cut reno the kitchen / bathroom with slate tiles, new counters, stainless countertop, cabinets, walk in shower with glass enclosure, etc? about 150-200sqf for both areas.