Long Island City - Toxic Waste Dump

It takes me as long to get to the east side as it does for someone from LIC, and that's EXACTLY what the MTA says. And I know for a fact that it's 40-45 minutes, as that's how long it takes me to get from my house to the Comic Strip - equidistant to the station as the Met.

LICC is trying to convince himself that he's made a good investment by investing in an industrial wasteland. He denies the LIE runs right through Hunters Point, denies the noise of the train yards, denies the Newtown Creek, denies that the most prominent feature of Gantry Plaza State Park are a pair of cargo derricks, denies the whores under the Queensboro Bridge, denies the Queensbridge Houses, claims that he can get to Bed Bath and Beyond and Best Buy in 7 minutes when the closest ones are miles away on the other side of Queens, and claims that he can get anywhere in no time as long as you don't count the time that it takes to get there.

No wonder he thinks he made a good investment. Like that view from Alcatraz: location, location, location!

"Like that view from Alcatraz: location, location, location!"

the alcatrazz thing is funny.

Typical clown steve. He makes an ignorant comment, is proved completely foolish and wrong, then tries to change the subject and makes petulant and even dumber comments to try to defend his original wacko comment.

"Seriously. I'm not talking about unemployed musicians, I'm talking about the fact that NYC is by far the biggest city in terms of art collectors (numbers just came out, that what I was thinking o) and that is where the gallery scene is. That is the absolute heart right now..."

Well, come on now, people pay for art everywhere. If you're talking about high-end art auctioned off at Sotheby's, yeah Manhattan is where you go, but for the stuff that's actually pushing the arts forward, I find it hard to argue against Brooklyn, especially Dumbo, Williamsburg, Bushwick, Gowanus, Navy Yard area (whatever the trendy name is for it), etc. As for music, sure, tons of unemployed musicians, but there are tons of legit acts that do their thing here.

About the Highline, yeah I was going to mention it'll eventually go up to the 30s, but right now, its impact on Chelsea is minimal, that's all I was getting at.

"Yes, but if you take the express train you have to walk farther than if you take the local train."

Where's the Met, Steve? Last I checked at 82nd and 5th. How is 77th St closer to 82nd than 86 St is? You're too much.

"LICC is trying to convince himself that he's made a good investment by investing in an industrial wasteland."

Even if this were true (and I think you're grossly exaggerating), why do you care so much?

bjw, call the MTA: they did the schedule, not me.

"Typical clown steve."

You see how LICC degrades the level of conversation on this board? Just look above at what Long Island City is.

And look on the map to prove that, unlike what LICC thinks, it really is on Long Island.

Oh that bridge and tunnel set!

bjw, there are places in Manhattan and the outer boroughs that I wouldn't want to live in but I appreciate why others would. Long Island City and the Lower East Side are not two of those places.

Just click right here:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=50-12+Vernon+Blvd,+Long+Island+City,+NY+11101&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&split=0&gl=us&ei=q3NWSsWNA5D7tgfPpvTJAg&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=image&resnum=1

then click on the photograph and scan around for the street view of where LICC gets on and off the subway every day. What do YOU think it looks like if not an urban wasteland?

And LICC - show me where all the yuppies, all those fashionable young people are at your subway stop.

Is that you crossing 50th Avenue?

"bjw, call the MTA: they did the schedule, not me."

Regardless of who did it, it's a poor effort, so the point stands. And ultimately, what's your point? That LIC is inconvenient in terms of transportation? Doesn't seem like that's a widely held contention.

As for the Google streetview, you should know that those photos are quite old (you can tell if you compare the state of some buildings now vs how they appear on Google), and frankly the streetview is not nearly as bad as you make it out to be. Like I said, if you call that an "urban wasteland," the neighborhood you call home isn't terribly far behind.

Here's what it looks like in my neighborhood:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=100+west+21st+street+new+york+new+york&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&split=0&gl=us&ei=vnhWSpi1OpaMtgfRvfG9Ag&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1

You think they're the same - because the prices are the same - more power too you.

If you have an updated version of the photo at that corner, please post. Looked like that last time I was there about a year ago.

So LICC, now that we see how ugly it is at street level in Long Island City, why don't you give us an address close to where you live so we can see how long it actually takes you to get to the subway on your way to MANHATTAN, where you really want to be?

"The actual PARK with the TREES start at 48th ave....are about 2,000-3000 feet depending on where you start the measurement."

I measured from the green part that says "park" on it and went straight to the water. You don't get 3,000 feet doing that.

If you click on the little orange person on the Google map you can walk him into the park and see just how stunningly beautiful it is. You won't believe his eyes!

Unlike Manhattan, Long Island City looks best from the other side of the East River.

"Well, come on now, people pay for art everywhere. If you're talking about high-end art auctioned off at Sotheby's, yeah Manhattan is where you go, but for the stuff that's actually pushing the arts forward, I find it hard to argue against Brooklyn, especially Dumbo, Williamsburg, Bushwick, Gowanus, Navy Yard area (whatever the trendy name is for it), etc."

bjw, you can argue that all you want to the cows come home, but you're still missing the point. This isn't a quality judgement of who makes the better art. It doesn't matter if its some one armed guy in Cuba. We're talking about desinations, and Chelsea draw was asked about. You are talking about ground zero of the biggest $$$ neighborhood in the biggest $$$ area of the arts in the biggest arts $$$ city in the world, and this having a substantial $$$ and activity draw. Talking about Chelsea and its value/draw without talking about that is batty.

This isn't a "quality" judgement or a "better" judgement, just a "this is a factor that can't be ignored"... I think of it in the same way as fidi having a value in having important companies there. I'm not saying it makes your life better, but it will have a significant $$$ impact on the neighborhood.

Its going to keep money flowing that way for quite some time.

"About the Highline, yeah I was going to mention it'll eventually go up to the 30s, but right now, its impact on Chelsea is minimal, that's all I was getting at."

My original sentance.... "Also, the high line IMHO is going to have a huge impact."

I thought "going to" seems pretty clear.

Though saying the impact is "minimal" now, I just don't agree with that either. More to come, for sure, but its already a factor in valuations. I was blown away by what 14th street looks like over there versus a year ago. Being the few blocks just north of it, I can't see how there isn't already major impact there.

Also, if you have to compare chelsea to an entire borough to make the argument, I think thats a pretty good argument in itself... ;-)

"If you click on the little orange person on the Google map you can walk him into the park and see just how stunningly beautiful it is. You won't believe his eyes!"

But you have to be in LIC to see it!

"Talking about Chelsea and its value/draw without talking about that is batty."

I acknowledged it, nyc, it's one of the two things I first mentioned. I agree it's a big draw, I just wouldn't qualify it as the "heart" anymore - many of the better galleries aren't really in Chelsea anymore (I get that's not your point, but I think it's important to mark this as a shift, just as when Soho started to lose its grip on the place for art galleries).

About the Highline, noted, sorry for missing that. The condos around there (most still going up) are indeed seeing that impact their value, which makes Steve's claim that LIC condos are asking Manhattan prices even more ridiculous. Look at what they're asking at these places that are in some cases more than 3 long blocks to any trains! It's nuts.

Steve, as for your choosing 21st and 6th, I have to laugh. What about 26th and 11th? Those streets are just as desolate as LIC. It's clear you're not going to back down though, so just do everyone here a favor and forget LIC exists. Maybe we can get back to relatively sane discussions around here?

"But you have to be in LIC to see it!"

I have, and it looks JUST LIKE THAT!

"Steve, as for your choosing 21st and 6th, I have to laugh."

Why? My apartment is shown in that picture. It's where I live, right next to the Jewish cemetery.

"What about 26th and 11th? Those streets are just as desolate as LIC."

They are, but as far as I know, no one is extolling the virtues of living there.

LICC - no comments on what your neighborhood REALLY looks like?

All those yuppies and fancy eateries you've been telling us about?

Give us some addresses so we can look at them!

Ah, the clown is still at it. steve, no one cares what you think, because after this thread, the few people left who didn't know you are a clown now see that you are a liar and that, frankly, you just aren't that intelligent.

Check www.liqcity.com for information and pictures about the area.

Cherry picking your pictures again, LICC? Just like your travel data - you know more about the trains than the MTA! - and your housing data.

Google is unbiased, you can look at EVERYTHING! Just walk that little man down the streets, see what's there. You have 3 or 4 relatively nice but extremely overpriced high rises on the water, but you need body armor and trench boots to wade your way to the subway.

No wonder people take the water taxi! They don't have to walk through their own neighborhood.

The vast majority of LIC looks like a bomb exploded in it. It's what I thought last time I was there, what my friends think who considered moving there, and what Google Maps shows. I can't believe you actually wasted your money and "invested" (as you call it) there. It'll be YEARS before they can develop the place to make it into what civilized society would call "livable," you know, with a critical mass of sufficiently educated people that you might actually want to spend some time with, as opposed to the whores under the Queensboro Bridge.

Looking at the corner by my building versus your entire neighborhood, can you HONESTLY say, LICC, that if you were infinitely rich, you'd choose LICC over Chelsea?

Steve, wait, is the little Google Maps guy how you've "traveled" to so many countries? That explains a lot. If you're going to pass judgment on a place, you should see it for yourself. Anyone who's actually been there knows that while there are plenty of areas that need a lot of work, there are some legitimately nice spots, and the area is getting noticeably better. In my experience, anyone who's as extreme as you are ("NOTHING" worthwhile about LIC, according to you) is trying to sell something or has an underlying agenda. But you're apparently too conceited to admit that.

"Looking at the corner by my building versus your entire neighborhood, can you HONESTLY say, LICC, that if you were infinitely rich, you'd choose LICC over Chelsea?"

If you were infinitely rich, you probably wouldn't choose either. Or you would choose both. Silly comment.

If I was "infinitely" rich, I know I wouldn't choose Chelsea to live. Actually, the couple I know that recently moved to LIC from Chelsea are loving it.

Don't you think that if I wanted to be a clown like steve, that I could find plenty unflattering pictures of Chelsea and post them?

"is the little Google Maps guy how you've "traveled" to so many countries?"

No, I was physically there, just as I have been physically present in LIC.

"Anyone who's actually been there knows that while there are plenty of areas that need a lot of work, there are some legitimately nice spots"

Show us one.

"and the area is getting noticeably better."

It could get twice as nice and still be a hole.

"In my experience, anyone who's as extreme as you are ("NOTHING" worthwhile about LIC, according to you) is trying to sell something or has an underlying agenda."

Come up with my agenda, then. I'm just expressing a widely shared opinion.

"Actually, the couple I know that recently moved to LIC from Chelsea are loving it."

GOOD FOR THEM!

"Don't you think that if I wanted to be a clown like steve, that I could find plenty unflattering pictures of Chelsea and post them?"

Of course you could - but no one is extolling the virtues of living in those parts. You're constantly saying how wonderful LIC is, but 90% of it is a sh*thole. Look at your subway stop - DESOLATE.

The difference is the ratio: 90% of Chelsea is nice, 90% of LIC sucks. Just that plain, dude: look at the pics.

"No, I was physically there, just as I have been physically present in LIC."

And yet you rely on little Google photos from ~2 years ago (I know this because the work I can see them doing on my building dates from back then). I really doubt you've actually been there anytime recently, though it's obviously convenient for you to say so.

"Show us one."

Click on the blog link LICC posted for you. If you refuse to believe it, that's your issue, but there are nice spots there, unless your definition of "nice" is 6th Avenue traffic.

"Come up with my agenda, then. I'm just expressing a widely shared opinion."

I think the responses on this thread show that it's not "widely shared." There's always a lunatic fringe ready willing and able to bash anything under the sun, but that doesn't mean you're right. I don't think it's paradise, but I strongly disagree with your labeling it a "wasteland."

steve's agenda is that he hates me because I point out how he is usually incorrect, he badly loses every argument to me, and he is so conceited and obnoxious that he can't have a normal discussion where people disagree with him, so he becomes a clown and lies about things because he thinks it bothers me if he criticizes LIC.

InFamous recently posted how he and his wife recently visited LIC to look around the neighborhood, and they were quite pleased with the area. Look at the website I posted above to get an idea of LIC.

The subway stop that steve is talking about is not desolate. It is right next to a great wine bar, a nice Irish pub, it is across the street from the 108 Precinct station, across from Cafe Henri, a diner, a block away from a very nice church, a few steps from Tournesol, a great French cafe. That stop is near the beginning of Vernon Blvd. From that spot and north from there is an active retail area, wiht shops, delis, restaurants, etc. If you turn east up Jackson Avenue, you have other shops, restaurants, etc. up about a 1/4 mile to the PS1 Museum, and then continue up to the Citi Building. If you head west two blocks you are at the great waterfront parks.

But of course you can listen to the clown from Chelsea with a personality disorder and a tendency of telling lies for information about LIC.

"steve's agenda is that he hates me"

I don't even know you, so how could I hate you?

"because I point out how he is usually incorrect"

You mean things like transaction costs, rent-to-price ratios, the Newtown Creek?

"he badly loses every argument to me"

You are the only person who seems to believe that - you've yet to post a single datum on anything to support your positions, beyond an obscure New York Times article about average rents a dozen years ago. You have novel economic theories that make no sense and that might find as their only sympathizer Ron Paul, and you've invested all your money in a hellhole.

And I lose the arguments?!

Wait - did I forget!? LICC claims there is a Bed Bath and Beyond and Best Buy MINUTES from him - except they are on the other side of Queens, in East Elmhurst and Astoria.

"The subway stop that steve is talking about is not desolate."

No? LOOK AT THE PICTURE, DUDE!

"the Citi Building"

A bankrupt bank with a half-empty building built decades ago that they couldn't get people to work in.

"From that spot and north from there is an active retail area, wiht shops, delis, restaurants, etc."

Give us some addresses, and we'll look.

"If you turn east up Jackson Avenue...."

I followed the Little Man (tracing my own path) and saw - ghetto.

"the great waterfront parks"

That look at where you REALLY want to be: MANHATTAN!

I feel sorry for you, LICC: you spent all your money living someplace horrible, in the hopes that it would be gentrified one day. And it likely will be, if you can wait that long.

steve the clown keeps telling lies. Bed Bath and Beyond and Best Buy??? How dumb is that comment?

No wonder steve couldn't hack it at BofA.

LICC, you must think people can't read. Here are your very words: "I can get to any of those stores in under 10 minutes as well."

When they're in Rego Park and East Elmhurst, and you live in Long Island City. Driving on a bad day could take you an hour, there is no public transportation there so you cited ones in the city - which will take you minimum 40 minutes to get to.

Then this lie: "The 7 is one of the most reliable trains in the system" when it is, in fact, one of the worst and most overcrowded.

All I'm asking you is for the addresses of these wonderful places you cite, so we can have a look.

"No wonder steve couldn't hack it at BofA."

I left BofA and joined Price Waterhouse in London for twice the salary and a promotion. I was an expat in London at the age of 28, all expenses paid. Sorry.

But it's no wonder you go for the ad hominem attacks - you can't defend your decisions. You also tout your "economic theories" as the truth when you can't back them up, and you've been proved wrong by investing vast amounts of money in the first neighborhood to feel the effects of the crash.

Your "economic theories" led you to investing in one of the worst places you could invest at exactly the wrong time, much like spunky's decision to invest in C and MER. If you were defending someplace nice like Forest Hills I'd be all on your side. But just look at the street images, dude:

LONG ISLAND CITY IS A DUMP.

steve, you have no shame in being a flat-out liar. And you combine incompetence with it. The proof that you lie are IN THE POSTS ABOVE! Best Buy is on 44th and 5th. I can get there in 10 minutes. I can get to the ones in Queens in 15-20 minutes.

The 7 is one of the most reliable and cleanest train lines in all of NYC. You can lie about that all you want, but the facts and data prove you wrong, as usual. It also is not overcrowded. It is less crowded than the Lexington line trains. I hardly ever have to wait to get on the train, and almost always I have plenty of space for the 5 minutes that I am on it getting into Grand Central.

About BofA, sure, whatever you say. Like you don't tell lies about everything. Fact is, you didn't last there or at PW.

My place in LIC has probably held its value relatively well. Your paying $4700 a month rent (which in your "economic theory" is $90 more than $4500) and have been renting for how long? Over 10 years? And you don't think you are a clown?

C'mon steve, make up some more ridiculous stuff to show everyone how much of a fool you are.

"I can get there in 10 minutes."

If you load yourself into a slingshot and have really good aim you can. IF you catch the #7 train EXACTLY on time and there are NO DELAY it takes you 8 minutes or so to get to Grand Central. You have to WALK to the train station, WAIT for the train, then get OUT of the train and walk from 42nd and Park to 44th and 5th.

IMPOSSIBLE IN TEN MINUTES.

"I can get to the ones in Queens in 15-20 minutes."

At 3 a.m. if you hit all the lights you can. Otherwise, an hour. Just drive on Queens Boulevard a few blocks: the lights are timed to stop you every block.

"It is less crowded than the Lexington line trains"

Hong Kong is less crowded than the Lexington line trains. Think of a better example.

"My place in LIC has probably held its value relatively well."

Really? Give us the details.

"Your paying $4700 a month rent and have been renting for how long?"

If I had purchased an identical apartment across the street when you purchased in Long Island City, I would have lost $300,000 just in lost principal, which is 5 years' rent without counting paying off the mortgage and interest. As far as I'm concerned - and any economist would be concerned - that's a much better deal than you have.

"IMPOSSIBLE IN TEN MINUTES."

No more impossible than your bs about getting to Central Park in 7 minutes.

The train is 5 minutes to Grand Central, not 8, and maybe another 2 minutes to Bryant Park, which is between 5th and 6th.

Wrong again steve!

As for driving, it takes less than 10 minutes to get off the LIE at the Woodhaven Blvd/Queens Blvd. exit.

You have been renting for over 10 years? And you are trying to say you are better off than I have been?

"Option 1 - Regular Fare $2.25 - Reduced Fare $1.10; Total Transit Time: 7 minutes"

That's how long it takes station to station.

IF you don't have to walk to the station and wait for the train.

"it takes less than 10 minutes to get off the LIE at the Woodhaven Blvd/Queens Blvd. exit."

At 3 a.m. it does. At rush hour it's 40 minutes minimum.

"You have been renting for over 10 years?"

Over that period I've rented and I've owned, and done both at the same time.

"And you are trying to say you are better off than I have been?"

Just follow the Little Orange Man on Google Maps, look at your neighborhood versus min. I think I'm doing FAR better than you are, and I know of no one who would disagree. (Except you.)

"and I know of no one who would disagree"

Yes, Steve, because so many people here have intimate knowledge of both your sets of finances. Now you've turned this into a pissing contest? As I said before, I've usually found you to be a pretty decent contributor here, but this thread takes the cake - you're being a jerk.

"but this thread takes the cake - you're being a jerk"

Give me a break - I'm having fun!

Oh, bjw, I'll gladly stop if LICC agrees to stop the ridiculous posts that he goes on and on and on with all the time.

As soon as he makes a statement and backs it up with evidence, I'll stop getting empirical evidence of what his "theories" lead to.

Ghettos.

"Give me a break - I'm having fun!"

You've been given plenty of breaks. But you keep repeating the same thing ad nauseum - it's way past old.

"Oh, bjw, I'll gladly stop if LICC agrees to stop the ridiculous posts that he goes on and on and on with all the time."

Really? Look who started this whole thread, unprovoked? Careful, your words might come off as empty rhetoric.

"it's way past old"

Then don't read it.

"unprovoked"

Have you read the garbage LICC posts about LIC? That alone is more provocation than any human being deserves!

"Have you read the garbage LICC posts about LIC?"

He's biased, sure, but what was so egregious about starting a thread concerning the opening of the new park (which does look pretty great)? I've seen nothing he's done that merits your obnoxious diatribes.

How is my posting some links about parks in LIC a provocation? I have never initiated any negative comment or discussion about other neighborhoods.

"How is my posting some links about parks in LIC a provocation?"

It's not just that, LICC - it's all the silly things you say, and the ad hominem attacks. If you say something and back it up with fact, fine. But you make outrageous statements unsupported by anything, claim you won and walked away. We can all play that game - as you see. This time I stooped to your level and, though unpleasant, it was surprisingly rewarding.

I have nothing against LICC per se - my father did actually grow up in the Queensbridge Houses, my grandparents, aunts, uncles, and cousins all lived there so I know them quite well. My grandparents also lived in what you call Astoria that the Post Office calls Long Island City. Someday it might be the best place in the world to live, but don't exaggerate what it is.

I have always backed my analysis and opinions with logic and concrete, accurate and contextual data or information. steve consistently lies, exaggerates, takes things out of context, and misapplies information. This thread is but one of many, many examples. He can't stand how often he loses arguments to me and looks foolish and childish.

Everyone sees it steve. It is amazing how you comment on these threads with blinders on.

See - THERE YOU GO AGAIN, LICC!

Amazing how you fall into such simple traps.

"Someday it might be the best place in the world to live, but don't exaggerate what it is."

That's about the smartest thing I've heard in this entire feud.

"I acknowledged it, nyc, it's one of the two things I first mentioned. I agree it's a big draw, I just wouldn't qualify it as the "heart" anymore - many of the better galleries aren't really in Chelsea anymore (I get that's not your point, but I think it's important to mark this as a shift, just as when Soho started to lose its grip on the place for art galleries)."

Yes, it not my point, but its not really true either. There have always been small galleries in fringe spots, and artist studios in the cheaper hoods, but if you think the gallery scene is moving like it did from Soho to Chelsea, then I think you just don't know the art scene.

Somebody made the same claim about the east village years ago, didn't make it true.

That Walentas offers free space to create galleries in dumbo, and artists can get cheap space in gowanus doesn't mean those are "better" galleries. The brooklyn stuff is pretty much considered a joke.

and the other factor is that the chelsea galleries are much more likely to be owned spaces, unlike soho.

"I have always backed my analysis and opinions with logic and concrete, accurate and contextual data or information."

LIC, you can complain about steve all you want, and I've had some issues with Steve in the past, but...

puhleeeeeeeeze

you must be kidding.

"but if you think the gallery scene is moving like it did from Soho to Chelsea, then I think you just don't know the art scene."

nyc10022, I didn't know you were the expert on everything, sorry. Seriously though, if you think the Brooklyn stuff is considered a "joke," you're in the minority.

Not in the art community. And I'm including in that folks who make their art in Brooklyn.

If you include folks who learned about galleries from buying a condo and the RE agent talking about them, yeah, I'm sure tons of them make the same mistake, too.

> nyc10022, I didn't know you were the expert on everything, sorry

Well, I am, but you happen to be hitting my wheelhouse in regards to this topic....