Forte Rebooted!

JJ, there is no particular reason to believe that common charges will go up in the future. They have been stable since the building opened, after all.

Taxes are public information: you can search on the NYC Finance website. You can find out how much of the assessed value is abated, and therefore figure out what the un-abated taxes would be.

Hi all, we have an accepted bid on a unit in the forte and are going through the paperwork now. Can anyone who currently lives in the building tell me how much we can expect to pay in monthly utility bills for a D line unit. thanks!!!

My friend who lives in the D line says his electric bill is $50-80 in the winter and $150-200 in the summer.

Looks like we'll need very good blinds! :)

Thank you Zinka. To your point Leom we will need plenty of them as well...lol

Gator - You're right about OBBP has a longer abatement. But those $370 taxes need to be included in my monthly carrying cost right now. They will also reduce my ability to borrow b/c of total monthly/income ratio. $300 more in taxes means I can get a 60k less loan.
Secondly, I think 10 year abatement is not that great b/c the taxes will be phased in from the 6th year and I don't bet the market to fully recover within 3-4 years, just in case I need to resell. But 15 year is fair enough. We'll have 8.5 years left with a fixed two digits tax before any move.
I'm not an investor, but I don't plan to stay in any building for 25 years. Every 5-8 years, I've moved from city to city, country to country b/c of studies, jobs, family situations...
When it comes to tax abatement, the longer the better... EXCEPT that the developper takes more advantage of it than the tenants do by jacking up the price.
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My personal ranking of the 1400sf apts that we are both interested in is:
Quality: 1. 18 line in OBBP; 2. 3 bd A line in Forte; 3. 10 line in OBBP
Price: 1. A; 2. 10; 3: 18
Resale value: 1. A; 2. 10; 3: 18
Just my humble opinion for your consideration.

Congrats, madtabs! Maybe we can organise a group purchase b/c there will be 30-40 tenants moving in at almost the same time. we can commission a studio to design the blinds, which could not only lower the cost but also make the building more aesthecially appealing from outside. I've seen numerous glass curtain wall buildings disfigured by ugly cacophonous blinds & curtains. It doesn't need to be homogenous. The studio/company could offer a couple of options that suit different tastes but are not in conflit with each other. Just an idea off the top of my head.

Hi Leo, that is a fantastic idea. there could be some significant savings there. i will let you know once i get the official word back from the bank. thanks.

Leom & madtabs, we're aware that budgetblinds.com had a special offer for the building(was given this info when we went to an open house last Spring); I've been in touch with them to get details, however, have yet to hear back. We're in the process of getting quotes from a few other companies and will let you know which one we're going for. We're considering either cellular or regular shades and should have quotes back next week.

Thx Momoya! Looking forward to it. I got C and need walls of strong & functional blinds. I regretted not wearing sunglasses at the Open House. Madtabs must have been boiled in D. :)

It would be great to have a group discount on blinds.
We will be at the unit this Friday as we have someone coming in to give us a quote on blinds. We also have the C line. I will keep everyone posted.

No sunglasses for us Leom, we went on a gray Thursday but the views were still spectacular! Thanks MoMoYa/George.

Talking about spectacular! Went to a evening tour tonight. The view is even better that our sunny Sunday OH! Clocktower lighted high at 1 Hanson, rose windows glittering at BAM, Midtown Manhattan awe-inspiring in the distance & expansive downtown Bkln skyscappers. Even 80 Dekalb that blocks the view to the northwest in the daytime becomes kinda mysteriously mesmerizing (read: few lights on b/c of low occupancy. ^_^)
We checked both inside the apt and on the roof. Granted the finishes in the kitchen & bathrooms are not to quality, but overall it's a very livable & lovable building.
Location is fantastic! Fulton ave is well lighted w. frequent bus services & good foot traffic. The restaurants & bars are not as packed as East Village or Chelsea but very animated. 10 times more interesting than Montague or Henry in Bkln Heights. Stopped by Green Grape and dined at No.7. Inventive fusion cooking w. down to earth warm attitude. Highly recommended! Can't say enough good things about this night spent in the neighbourhood.
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Update on the sales front: They just sent out 45 contracts. In addition to the 38 units already occupied, the total soldness will reach >70% soon.

Hi all, we've got a contract out on a B line. Is everyone getting financing through Wells Fargo? Are there other options out there if the building is less than 51% sold?

No 7 is absolutely delicious - the best restaurant in the neighborhood. Good choice.

I am trying to get financing elsewhere but will use Wells Fargo as a back up. I found their mortgage rates to be high and found lower rates elsewhere. Not sure how hard it will be to convince another bank to do a mortgage on a building which is les then 50% sold though. We'll see.

what exactly do the common charges cover?

We visited our unit yesterday to take measurements of the place and had few tradesmen come in. We bought one of C line units, which we love and can't wait to move into in January. We are planning on having the following done before we move: 1) Have window treatments installed, 2) Have the place painted, and 3) Have closets professionally organized.

In case anyone is interested, the one quote for mid range shades is about $6,000. There are exactly 16 windows in the place (11 in living, 2 in guest bed and 3 in master). So $6k is not bad. We are still awaiting a quote for Hunter Douglas shades which I will pass on to everyone once we receive it. We are expecting Hunter Douglas to be more but they are normally worth it - better quality, lifetime warranty and nicer looking. And we promise everyone to have them white or off white - I've seen one unit in the building with red blinds. Not sure what they are thinking.

For the painting, we received 2 quotes to have the entire house repainted. One quote is 2k and another is 3.7k, both using Benjamin Moore paint. We will more likely go with the higher quote as we felt the guy is much more detailed and will cover a couple of added tasks: a) He will fix the cracks between the walls and ceiling that are normally caused as the building was still settling, and b) He will extend the TV cable connection from the wall by the hallway to the area between the 2 pillars. He will have the extension done within the walls. It is a big task that would take around a day to finish. In total he will be at our place between 5 and 6 days.

For the closets, we are planning to have professionally built/organized closets in the already existent closets. As well, we plan to build another large closet in the guest bedroom. We have not received the quote for that yet but will pass on once I do.
If anyone is interested in doing the same work as we are, I suggest we speak. I am sure we will be able to negotiate better deals if we work as a group. Please let me know.

Good morning George,
Thx for the info, very interesting. I've also got C and am having a hard time figuring out where to put the TV. So you're planning to set it btwn the pillars as the models does? It looks very modern but my concern is: won't my TV get burnt by the eastern & southern sunshine in a year? I think a projector mounted on the ceiling in that space will be cool and practical. But Front projectors call for low/no light environment, which is just the opposit of the living room in C.
Count me in for your bulk purchase.

MoMoYa - Have you heard back from your dealer?

JJ- Wells Fargo doesn't necessarily offer the best rates but seems to be the only major bank that has preapproved Forte (read: faster & easier to get the loan). I've spoken w. another bank, which can offer financing but doesn't apply fixed rate to this building b/c it doesn't meet Fannie Mae restrictions yet. I recall in other posts on SE, they suggested a couple small regional/local banks, which are flexible and competitive in rates. Maybe you can dig them out.

George again - Isn't your ceiling much higher? So the quote for units w. regular ceiling should be a bit lower, isn't it?

Not sure how reliable this is, but went back a couple of days ago and basically there are contracts out on every unit in the building excluding a few three bedrooms. There are even backup offers for most of the 1 bedrooms. Amazing.

thanks leom. i am going to try other places and will update the list as soon as I have news. are you doing the wells fargo route?

george i am very interested in discussing with you the closets as I need to get that done and I might also be considering building another one. Please also do keep us posted on the painting quote - most likely I am doing that myself though. Are the cracks between the wall and ceiling visible? Is this something I should look for?
As I am a curtain person I am not doing the blinds except maybe in one window and that is it - is it worth working with you all on this when it is just for one of my windows? (the kitchen)

JJ - Plz do extend the list of banks that offer financing for Forte. I'm always skeptical toward "prefered" lender.
I definitely need to reconfigue the closets as well.

Interesting cable-free option for TV. Hope this could save you the cost for cable extension.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/10/technology/personaltech/10basics.html

George, make sure you seal the countertops before you move in. Otherwise they will pick up oil stains from cooking oil.

George12, I saw you over there on the Riverwalk discussion. I'd love to get in touch to compare notes on your views of the C line, as I'm thinking of doing similar. Btw., were you considering the A line over at Riverwalk? My contact info is at http://scr.im/universal

Does anyone have inspiring photos of views of C units, and of furnished interiors that they could post? Also, what are people doing for storage facilities in the area? Are there any nearby places to conveniently store stuff?

Also, is it everyone else's experience that they are not negotiating prices other than closing costs?

Does anyone have an approximate commute time to Grand Central?

Thanks all.

zinka am taking your advice about the countertops - thanks!
what about the floors? anything else i should know?

universal - they are not negotiating. its their asking price or nothing.

Commute to Grand Central is about 20 mn on the 4/5 trains, which are very frequent.
The best part is, as Nevins st station is not that steep and Forte is a relatively small building, I spend only 5 mn from leaving the door to boarding the train. So I can get over to my office in (far) East Midtown in 35-40 mn door to door.

No particular advice about the floors. But if you will want to do custom electrical work like ceiling fixtures, which involves drilling into the concrete ceilings and running wiring behind the walls, you'll want to do that before painting because you'd just have to repaint afterwards anyway.

rooster, there's a self storage facility across the street - Extra Space Storage at 41 Flatbush Ave. There's also an entrance on Rockwell Place that's closer.

Leom, madtabs, george12, zinka, jj, and others who have contracts out at Forte:

Did you notice the odd number of red flags in the contract and offering plan(OP)? I don't know if it is kosher to post this here, but I have no other source of getting info. My attorney (recommended via broker) completely glazed over the documents without considering the following risks:
1) No Permanent Certif of Occupancy. Forte has had TCO renewed nine times, and it has been over two years since first TCO (12/5/07). Currently, eight outstanding requirements. I know the architect Daniel Kaplan has two letters in the OP stating everything is ok with the building "provided that construction is in accordance with the plans and specifications that I examined" and that there's "no additional cost in terms of work that is required" for obtaining FCO, with obvious qualifications of "my opinion" and "at this time", etc, etc.
RIGHTS AND OBLIG OF SPONSOR: ... a TCO, which may be extended up to a total of 2 yrs, expires prior to obtaining a permanent CO, residential occupancy is in violation of Multiple Dwelling Laws.... Sponsor makes no representation or guarantee that the DoB will issue PCO within 2 yrs after issuance of the first TCO (12/5/2007). In the event that Sponsor does not obtain PCO, the sponsor will be obligated to obtain and any costs associated therewith could be assessed against all Unit Owners as a Common Expense.
The sponsor's attorney flat out rejected a PCO as a contingency prior to closing. Maybe others should request this as well??? Strength in numbers?

#2) RESIDENT MANAGER'S UNIT: Sponsor intends to close on transfer of unit 4D to the Residential Board within 6 months of 12th Amendment(meaning 5/11/10). Here's the kicker: From what I understand, the new sponsor is to be paid 900k for this unit. Originally, the Board had 3 yrs to pay at 8% interest the total cost of the unit, or pay interest only (6k/mo) and pay the 900k at the end of 3 yrs. If the Board cannot pay, the unit goes into foreclosure, with a bunch of ensuing events. As a note, 3D was originally asking 900k, but is now asking 445k. According to what I've read, the unit owners are still on the hook for ponying up 900k for the resident manager to live in the building. Is this outrageous or am I totally reading it wrong?

#3) No Board Minutes! My attorney was told that there are no board minutes. Has anyone else heard this? Are current owners paying their common charges? It's possible the sponsor wouldn't file liens against them simply because a lien is to ensure payment prior to sale of a unit, which none of the current owners can do anyway. What's going on in the building? Does anyone out there have a clue?

I don't mean to be inflammatory in any way. I think the building has great potential which is why I looked there in the first place. I'm disheartened that my lawyer did not point out these issues to me. I would rather discuss counter tops and group rates on blinds as shared above, but I consider these to be some of the 'big ticket items' for review. It goes without saying that I'm not affiliated with any other building. I'm a prospective buyer who has done his/her homework. Thoughts?

So.... it's unusual for this thread to be quiet for so long. I have other concerns, but they're not as pressing as the ones above. Those are my top 3.

readthecontract, thank you for your headsup. Have you discussed the above issues with your lawyer. I understand that he didn't flagg the issues but one would have expected you to go back and discuss them with your lawyer first.
I've dropped my lawyer an email with the points your raised. I'll keep you posted. In my opinion:
Point #1. To be honest, I don't even understand how this issue works. I'll let my lawyer explain to me.
Point #2, I am not concerned about this one. It is what it is. This clause related to the manager's unit has been in place since inception. Five months, when I almost bought a unit of the same line 10 floors below the current one at more money, the manager's unit existed. Now paying 100k less for a unit that is 10 floors higher, the least of my worry is the 400k difference in the price of the manager's unit. In any case, I dropped the broker an email to see if adjustments can be made on the price of the unit. But honestly, with the price I am paying for our unit, this point is not of a conern to me.
Point #3, If there were any issues related to people not paying their cc's, you would have heard about it already. I am not concerned about this issue but I will let me lawyer provide me his opinion.

Overall, you have some good points, but I am not concerned given the prices we are paying. Yes, there could be a one time hit of $2k or $3k for extra common charges to be for unexpected incidents, but who cares. The prices we are paying are unheard of in the city and I am willing to take that risk.

1. seems pretty clear; any and all costs associated with obtaining the PCO are to be borne by purchasers. developer appears to be taking the hilarious position that while there is nothing to really worry about, they, of course, will not put in writing that this expense will be borne by them.

2. how can this not be of concern. first of, it is outrageous and secondly will represent a significant expense to the condo--wouldn't you like to have that $400K be available for unanticipated expenses. in a brand newbuilding where you have you paint before you can move in?

you seem blinded by the deal you think you are getting. will we be reading about you in the paper in a few years?

I'd just like to point out that to say these prices are "unheard of in the city" implies a rather short memory. Prices well below these were frequently heard of a mere 10 years ago, before the bubble got out of control.

Good morning to All,
Thx for raising the red flags, readthecontract. It's especially of use to me b/c my contract is being finalized so neither my attorney nor myself got a chance of reading it. Re the quietness on this thread, my late reply is due to a whole night's cooking-dinner party. :)

I tend to agree w. George.
#1. It's a substantial issue that we all need to talk about w. our respective lawyers. I guess it might be related to the fact that Clarett Group got frustrated and went bankrupt on this project long before the expiration of the TCO. Eurohypo is non local, non professional in RE and hesitated about what to do with the transfer for a couple of months. In other words, it's possible that nobody took charge of PCO when the TCO expired earlier this year.
(Clarett and Eurohypo struck the deal way back in April, 2009: http://www.brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/2009/08/forte_officiall.php)

#2. It's a much lesser concern. Just 3 weeks ago, 4D was being priced more or less as such. We could ask for an adjustment on it. Instead of paying 8% interests on 900k, the board could even buy it once and for all at 445k. If the building gets 100% sold soon, that represents 4k per unit only, which could be a rather big one time hit but will reduce everyone's cc in the long run (and even increase in value). I know the legal implications will be far more complicated that this pure math calculation. And it will not be easy to get everyone on board. Don't take it seriously if you think I'm being audacious & reckless. However, w. the discount we got, I'm asking myself: will you still buy Forte if the total price is 4k more and get a 1% share on 4D? I'd categorically say yes.

#3 Again, it's not a surprise there was no functionning board b/c the sponsor held 70% of the building. You can image how fiercely Clarett, Goldman Sachs, Prudential & Eurohypo were fighting for THEIR major concerns in detriment of some "insignificant" board minutes.

I, for one, like negative comments on this board, which could helf us from being blinded by the deal and find out solutions for various imperfections at Forte.

Columbia:
1. Agree that we should press the new sponsor to get the PCO. I'm also w. readthecontract about "strength in numbers". Anyone has idea about:
1) how long this process takes?
2) how much it costs?
3) if ever the sponsor can't do it, how doable is it for the future owner's board?
2. Plz be advised that it's not an unexpected increase of burden for the sponsor's unit, but rather a 400k discount we now could get thanks to the bear market.

Post:
There's a difference btwn norminal value & real value. When I first moved to NY 7 years ago, Metrocard cost $63/month, B'way tickets $80, oil $30/barril. Now they are $89, 120 & 70 (after reaching $147). I got a +7% adjustment on salary last year alone (before crisis, of course) b/c of inflation.

was at Forte yesterday - apparently everything is in contract except for 2 apartments. I agree with strength in numbers. I have an excellent lawyer so as soon as I hear back I can chime in on the issues readthecontract raised. I too like the negative comments on this board which helps us find solutions

Was the 900K factored into the common charges? I don't have the plan in front of me. Seems ridiculous that it would not be purchased at the new prices.

Agreed on the difference between nominal and real value. I think if you were to track NYC real estate prices over the past 10 years they have increased at a much faster pace than inflation (and, indeed, at a much faster pace even than the specific products you list, with the exception of oil, which increased faster but dropped much further from its peak).

There is a board, it has met, and there should be minutes available.

jj1918, do you know which two apartments are still available?
i have an appointment tmw to see 26B. thanks

i was told that all that is available are two 3-bedrooms and that they are currently only taking back up offers on all the contracts that are out. Maybe the brokers are playing games with us? I don't know. Please update us tomorrow! 26B is gorgeous by the way!!!

I heard all 2 bedroom A line is out, and that 3 bedrooms from 3rd to 11th floors are available, as well as unit 19C. Didn't ask about 1 bedrooms. But it sounds like they had a busy weekend and Monday, so all this could have changed.

BTW. Website photos are pretty funny. I like the roofdeck one of the couple lying in top if the skyline. Looks like the woman has sand on her feet. Then there are the close ups of the concierge and the woman at the grocery store. More of a dating site feel to it than property sales. Does anyone know whether this is the original website or a rush job by the current sales agents?

Is anyone else concerned about the the origins of the sheetrock used to construct this building? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Chinese_drywall_controversy
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/03/18/chinese.drywall/#cnnSTCText
http://www.newsinferno.com/archives/15527
Anyone living in the bldg, care to share their thoughts? Perhaps unscrewing an outlet plate to see if the copper wires are not corroded would be a good start.
In agreement w/ Leom and readthecontract, although we're not at that point yet. Still dealing with Wells Fargo. I think it's important to find out what is preventing the sponsor from getting PCO since there might be outstanding DOB violations that could be costly to correct before PCO can be issued and the new owners (us) should not bear this burden.

JJ - You said you have very competent attorney. Could you post his contacts? Is he in Bkln? How much does he charge?

Guys, I called my lawyer and discussed some of the issues raised by readthecontract. My lawyer subsequently communicated with the sponsor's lawyer and was able to get some answers. We then discussed the situation and I am honestly not worried. We are not blinded by the deal, as Columbia put it, but we look at this in a risk reward approach and we think the rewards outweigh the risks. There are risks for sure but the risks here are risks that could be present in any condo purchase these days.

For the TCO, it is normal to close on TCO's and often takes a long time to get the full CO. It is the sponsor's obligation to obtain the full CO and if it not obtained, they could be easily sued. Given that the sponsor is a bank with lots of money, my lawyer does not think there will be a risk here.

With regards to the minutes, this is a new sponsor and they've held a limited number of meetings. The risk that the minutes could unravel information on tenants not paying cc's is there; however, my wife and I are willing to take this risk, which could be present in any unit we buy in any building in the US. Also remember, this is a new sponsor and any minutes from the old sponsor may not be available at all.

With regards to the building manager's unit. I fully agree with you. It is horrible that they are still pricing the unit at 900k; however, please note that the cost related to the unit is pretty immaterial to the whole statement. Based on discussion with the lawyer, they are working on an amendment to reflect the price drop of the unit. More pressure on the broker and sponsor's lawyer to expedite the amendment would be useful.

Regarding Shabbytabby's sheetrock issue, valid point. Did not and will not look into it as it could be an issue with any building these days. And keep in mind that they've just discovered that the issue is not limited to sheetrock imported from china but also to ones manufactured in the US.
So my point, we could bring up every single risk in the world and never purchase one property. If you guys are that that risk averse, that's great for you but we are not. Based on our risk reward approach, we will be moving forward with the deal and we are very happy to accept the risks that come along.

"It is the sponsor's obligation to obtain the full CO and if it not obtained, they could be easily sued."

how naive are you? i guess you've never participated in a legal action? any lawyer who says that suing is easy should be fired and then strung up.

it looks like you're going ahead no matter what; this is your american right. please, please keep the whining down when it doesn't work out.

deal?

Columbia, why are you so upset. We have our opinion and you have yours and there is no reason for the name calling. I am assuming you are a broker who is not getting our commission. Otherwise you would not be this upset.
We all have our own approach to things in life. With regards to Forte, some people are raising issues that we believe are within our risk appetite. I am not forcing others to follow my steps but I am sure some people like yourself for some reason don't want anyone buying into Forte. We are happy with our deal and can't wait to move in in late January. BTW, today we got a quote for the closets and we're very excited to get the work (painting, window treatments, and closets) started in mid January.

ok... back from a long day of work to see that my post has started a discussion. i'd like to make sure that we keep it constructive and civil.

re: risks. i agree with what's been said. TCO and manager's units are risks. they are risks i'm willing to take, not because of the "deal" i'm getting, but because i'm ok with those costs. however, i'd like to point out, that if you have a two bed unit with approx 1% of common shares (like mine) this is a $9,000 proposition -NOT 2 or 3k. I need to know what the interior finances of the building are i.e., common charges because this will be an indication if others who paid 2007 prices have the stomach for this type of cost. it's not so much me as it is the 100 others in the building. as asked above, 900k was not factored into the CC. As detailed in financial documents in the offering plan- the building managed to wind up only 1000 in the red last year (a miracle or creative accounting?) and this will be and added charge for EVERYONE not just those 'getting great deals'.

i tend to doubt lawyers who say, 'just sue later', it's a lazy way of them not doing their job. what have others heard on PCO responsibility?

lastly, i went to the DoB on Friday to figure out TCO/PCO. They have 'specialists' available for "homeowner's night" every tues from 4-5:30, 210 Jorelmon St Room 816 (there's security in the lobby, don't let it weird you out). i can't make it because i have a huge presentation at work. anyone want to go? also, please feel free to review DoB website prior:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dob/html/bis/bis.shtml, enter address on right side, bottom left click 'jobs filings', click the second job number listed, at top of page click items required.

These documents show dates ranging 2007 to 2009 in the submitted column but no date in the approval column for Final Site Survey, BPP Final Sign Off, Final Plumbing, Elevator, Electrical, Construction. I'm not an expert. Does anyone know what this means?

THANKS!
PS- re:sheet rock, more than 1/2 of the 60,000 cases were in FL with AL and LA making up the other most hit states. i haven't heard of this being a problem in NYC new construction.....

1. i am not a broker.
2. i foolishly care about people i don't know making what i consider to be irrational financial decisions.
3. i certainly wish you (and everyone else) good luck
4. i have been around long enough to see people get burned on all sorts of deals that they rationalized as you are doing.
5. i believe that we are in the midst (early on) of an unknown financial situation; no way to know what's going to happen but the less committed each of us are financially, the more options available down the road.
6. the whining comment is based on the not insignificant number of people who bought in across the country is the last 3-4 yrs who are trying to blame everyone but themselves for what they did. while i believe that there is culpability enough to go around, buying now -- given everything that has happened--is completely irresponsible.

Columbia, points well taken and thank you for the best wishes.
One thing I can tell is that no one knows what the future holds. You say buying now is irresponsible, I say buying now is taking advantage of a great opportunity. Who is right here? no one knows but for sure time will tell. You could end up completely correct but no one can predict the future.

but its all about risk tolerance, yes? how much of your investment (rhetorical) can you afford to lose? so many people are so screwed these days; and for what? chasing a sure profit? getting a nice place to live? and on and on. my generation--the boomers --- fucked themselves and for what?

At least if we buy a house, we get to live in it. The investment benefit, who knows what happens.

The TCO is no big deal. Our lawyer said the same thing. This is very common in new buildings and renewing a TCO (which the building has done numerous times) is a relatively painless and inexpensive process. This is not a real risk.

I am still waiting to hear back from my lawyer regarding the PCO and will update. It is good to haar that it is normal from 2 other lawyers posted here. Anyone else?

Regarding the chinese drywall - do you think we can ask the builder about proof of drywall manufacture?

I am also worried about the manager's unit as I for one can not stomach 9000$!!!!

devito - did you go to the forte today? what was still available?

leom - my lawyer is not in brooklyn and is quite expensive (i am getting a deal because of another business). If you are still interested I would be happy to give you the contacts. Let me know.

george - can you share your quote or contacts for the closets as I will be getting similar work done probably. and are you able to get the work (painting, window treatments, and closets) started before you close?

lastly does anyone else have moisture in their walls from leaks from the windows?

shabby are you getting approval from wells fargo before dealing with the contract?

I am going at 5:30 today. The broker said that 26B already has an accepted offer but they were taking back up offers, and she has had 5 backup offers so far that have got the apartment. We shall see.
I know there is a demand for these apartments, but should I feel that some degree of broker hype is in play here?

JJ,
With regards to the closets, the only quote we've received thus far are for the doors of the new closet that we plan to install in the guest bedroom. Pretty expensive quote ($5k)which I don't think we'll go with. For the actual closets, we have not received the quote yet but will let you know when we do.

For the window treatments - We received two quotes for some really nice treatments. They will run us around $5 to 6k for 16 windows. I think it is a decent deal. I don't have the companies' contact info but can pass them on sometime on the weekend if you are interested.

Painting is $3,750 through MasterPainters 718-568-4509. We had another cheaper quote but really liked the guy from MasterPainters. We were very impressed with his attention to detail.

We plan to get the work started on the day we close, approximately 2 weeks before we move in.

We don't have any moisture in the walls. Moisture in the walls is not a good thing - have you had your punchlist walk through. Make sure they fix it well before you close to make sure the problem is for sure fixed.

fyi---sorry if you know this but...

if there is moisture in the walls which is simple to test for, the key is to find the source of the moisture.

any remedial actions that don't include this are useless. having lived through this in a pre-war building, the only way to find the source is to tear down the wall until you reach a logical culprit and then observe.

this will not get better by itself.

That's for sure something you need to worry about. We don't have this issue in our unit but we will look more closely on our next visit. Thanks for the info.

how do you know that? did you have a reputable inspector check for this specific problem?

or...is that another risk that you figure your great deal will cover?

@ JJ1918: We understand that pre-qualification by Wells Fargo is a "condition of the sale." We're waiting for comment or a letter of qualification on the financials we submitted.

Regarding moisture, the only thing we noticed was the taped joints were visible in the ceiling of the bedrooms and expect to have that checked on our punch list. It may or may not be moisture. It could be just the bldg settling or a shitty compound job. The the best way to check is with a moisture meter first, then locate and repair the source, and we will if we get passed the first hurdle of pre-qualification.

Shabby, we also have hairline cracks between the walls and ceiling. When the painters were in to provide quotes, they told us these cracks were normal in newly built developments - supposedly it is just the building settling. But we'll be raising the issue during the puch list walk through later this week.

Columbia, "is that another risk that you figure your great deal will cover". What is your point. You have not made one useful contribution on this board - you just mouth off on anyone that is buying at Forte. You must be a broker that is upset for not getting the Forte deal or potential buyer who wasn't able to get in early for a good deal or probably one of the backup offers. There is no other way to explain your behaviour. Look at your past postings and I am sure you would agree with my conclusion.

yep...you got me. i tried to buy and got shut out. i'm devestated.

if you're so sure, what do you care what i say?

Really what is the use of being on this board if you have no business here. What is your connection with Forte. You seem to be here more than many of us who bought in the building. Don't you think it's odd.

Hey, George. I can't speak for CC, but I've also been following Forté closely even though I won't be buying there. I think in some ways what has happened to Forté is a sign of things to come in the neighborhood and throughout NYC, and Eurohypo is lucky to have been among the first to sell out through massive discounts off the peak. 1HP and others will probably have to discount even more, since I think there is a limited number of buyers out there and Forté just nabbed a good chunk of them.

The way I see it, the bubble prices got so out of control compared to background economic factors such as inflation, population growth, and income growth, that the discounts to date just won't be adequate. I anticipate a slow, excruciating drag to the bottom with some moderate up-ticks and flat years along the way (as after the 1987 peak). It could be 20 years before prices at the "great deal" level that you're so happy with are seen again.

That of course is just my opinion and I fully respect your decision to buy. However I like to share my opinion, and also possibly propagate it. It would be nice if the bottom were to come more quickly this time so I could buy in at a better deal.

Leom

I have started this discussion because I am extremely interested in Forte's outcome. I am not looking to buy at the Forte but for those of us in the real estate business, we always have our ears to the ground. Forte is basically a precursor of what will happen to many distressed condos in the area!

The results were interesting for any bystander and very attractive to buyers on the fence.

Good Luck Leom on your New Condo and thanks for adding your great insights to my very informative thread!

This thread illustrates the morbid appeal of reading SE, the pitfalls of NYC real estate espedially in this market, and the wishful thinking of re market participants, not to mention naivite. And I only speed read it.

George - Is the sponsor allowing you to do a punch list? My attorney told me after reviewing the offering plan that I would be purchasing the unit "as is." Are you incorporating the punch list into you contract?

Anyone have ideas on expanding C line kitchen with a counter? Seems like there isn't a whole lot of cooking space, which is odd for 1200 sq ft.

august39, fire your attorney and get one who can read. The only things that are "as is" are the floors and cosmetic aspects of the appliances.

agree with zinka. i have a punch list.

there is no moisture in the unit by the way. it was damage caused by some poor construction which will be easy to fix.

my lawyer said the TCO is not an issue but that the 900K manager's unit is. He is going to talk to them about it but am not really sure what we can do.

thanks columbia and shabby about the moisture advice. i went in and tested with an infrared moisture reader and there is no moisture after all. It was a case of some shoddy construction which can be easily fixed.

there is no way to prove about the chinese dry wall - i did check the copper wires and nothing was corroded. if the builder could provide us info on where they got the drywall it would be better.

good lucky shabby. i too had to get preapproved as well. whats worrisome is that there is no mortgage contingency in the contracts.....

jim i am the first to admit that i am naive and new to this game so the whole thing is really f***ing scary.

devito - any luck?

August39, yes we'll be doing a punch list later this week. My understanding it is a normaly practice in NY.

JJ - Thx for your inspection w. infrared equipment. :) BTW, I've already got a new attorney.

George, Zinka & anyone who's elaborating punch list - Would you mind sharing the points that could also apply to other units? We could complement each other regarding the common problems and create strength in numbers if more buyers raise the same issues to the sponsor.

Fayek - I actually owe you a big thank-you. I was mostly looking in Bkln Heights. W/o your thread, I'd have missed out this fire sale in Forte. It may not the deal of the century, but the cost to own in Forte gets decent or even favorable (partly b/c of taxe abatement) compared to renting in the area (80 Dekalb, Avalon). I believe the rent/own ratio is more realistic for individual buyers than abstract macroeconomic predictions.
Agree w. you that Forte may be just a precursor. But I doubt many developpers have the luxury to follow Forte's drastic slash in price. They are bounded by the leanders' minimum price setting. Some prefer to convert to rental or file bankruptcy, or even worse, turn it to government for affordable housing. Too many uncertainties...
Wish you professional success!

leom

Awwww that is very kind! Be careful, soon you might be owing me a commision.Lol.

I am so glad that my thread has actually helped you make a decision. This is precisely why I post important news, so that people can gain a better insight into the real estate world. part of my real estate career revolves around spreading info.

But it's sad to see the RE professionals loose faith in the RE market. I was joking, if Forte is such a good deal, why the brokers (including you - Fayek) or mortgages guys don't buy into it themselves? Admitted this profession is not well regarded by the banks for mortgage b/c of their fluctuating income in this economy. But hey, them could have saved the apt on huge sale for their mom! :)
I feel like many brokers are still waiting for the market to bottom out. They are aware how much shadow inventory there is. They don't expect the value to increase much in the next couple of years even from such a low base-line. (Lesson to ourselves the buyers: don't get our punch list flat out rejected just b/c the sponsor or ourselves think this is such a great deal).
I'm not saying these insiders must be right though. Elisabeth Stribling got herself TWO penthouses in 1BBP at the very peak of the market. More hilarious is that broker backing out of 75 Wall st by claiming being used as a "marketing instrument". :)

leom the rent to own matrix is off the charts saying to rent. Are you using a formula the broker told you to use or something?

Leom,
No problem. I will update you following the punch list walkthrough. I think my focus will be on the following:
1. To check for moisture;
2. To test the heat/AC/appliances;
3. To make sure they'll fix the cracks between wall and ceiling

Anything else should I be focusing on?

samadams - No, it's my own research. You can check out Avalon & 80 DeKalb's websites.

High fl A (1156 sf) & C (1200 sf) in Forte sell for around 550k
downpay: 12-15k, 20-25% (in order to make a conforming loan)
loana: 417k, rate 4.5-5%, 30 years
monthly P&I: $2200
cc + tax: $900
total monthly: $3100

Plus, you lock in the payment for 9 years before the taxe abatement phase out; plus, you might get taxe deduction on the loan's interests.

vs.

DeKalb: 2bd 2bth (fl plan posted but no sq footage) starts at $3400. Didn't inquire. I guess they'll have to give 1-2 month free, but this should be the lowest fl. I bet next effective for a 2bd above 20th fl should be no less than $3500.

Avalon, 2 Bedrooms, 2 Baths:
1111 Sq. Ft. Starting at $4045/mo
1118 Sq. Ft. Starting at $4256/mo
1202 Sq. Ft. Starting at $4256/mo
Even if you factor in 3 months free (that should be a two year lease), it's still more expensive than owning in Forte.

thanks George. And thanks all for the great punch list info.

Is anyone thinking of installing partitions/doors? I was looking for some recommendations.

Leom - as i had an inspector check the unit everything was generally okay. My punch list will be to check the appliances, there is one electrical outlet that they didn't insulate, some touch-up, missing shelves in cabinets, missing doors on vanities, and some of you may have noticed that on the window sills the joints are coming up causing the paint to crack and chip off (looks like water damage form the window but is not) - they need to nail those pieces down and sand and refinish the surfaces.

What are we going to do about this ridiculous 900k managers unit???? it is absurd!

Hi - New to list and to Forte, but have option to purchase a 3-br apt. However have several pressing questions realtor was unable to answer:
1. The CC as appears in Corcoran listings is substantially lower than what I see in OP. Can anyone resolve this discrepancy?
2. I've asked my attorney to check on any outstanding violations that may hold up the CofO. Does anyone have info on this?
3. Somewhere in the above discussion reference is made to lack of board minutes. Has anyone gotten access or knows why not?

I hope to become a resident of Forte, which appears to be a great building, but having just experienced a legal action against the developer of the last condo I lived in, I know the futility of trying to sue. Thanks for all the astute comments on this discussion - I'll try to add to the info as it becomes available.

Just wanted to update everyone that I am finding that many places have approved this building so if you don't want to work with the preferred lender it seems that there are options out there.

Anyone else concerned about the fire rating in fire stair B3?

welcome kwieder! we didn't find any outstanding violations.

kwieder, if you're looking at the original offering plan, that's very old. The current ones are in one of the amendments to the offering plan.

I am a prospective buyer with an accepted offer but I am having problems with the lack of a mortgage contingency unless you use the preferred lender Wells Fargo. My attorney told me, according to the buildings department website, that the TCO has expired and has yet to be renewed, even though the sponsors attorney said that there is one in place. Is it possible that Wells Fargo would close on Units without a TCO since they are already invested in the building with the previous buyers? I'm afraid to sign the contract with deposit and only have my lender tell me that we can't approve your mortgage due to a lack of the TCO; without a mortgage contingency I would lose my deposit.

Also I didn't get a chance to read the Offering Plan but are we allowed to use our own Title Company?

jj what other lenders have you found? mortgage brokers or banks?

Did our walkthrough today. Honestly nothing major - we had a couple of very minor issues that will be easily fixed. Also, during our visit we received many positive news that I thought to share with everyone:
1. The manager's unit is in the process of being re-priced from 900k to I believe 454k - whatever it is listed currently in the offering plan - An amendment should be finalized soon;
2. There are contracts out on all units except a couple of the 3-bedroom units. This is great; however, we need to be realistic that having contracts out is good but does not mean that everyone will close on their units;
3. We inquired about an additional unit in the B-line and were told that it had already been purchased by a Forte tenant to expand their existing unit. This we thought was great news and gives us confidence that tenants do enjoy living at Forte and there are no issues with the building;
4. Some of the stores have been sold to people in the medical profession. It is a welcoming news not to have a restaurant in the building.

Good news about the manager's unit. But I think it is really a shame that the retail space will be a medical office. It would be much better to have an active use like a restaurant or a cafe to bring more street life to the neighborhood, especially at night. I was really looking forward to some real retail at last. Sigh.

Streeteasy has just listed 8 units as "in contract". Does anyone know what that means? Are those the ones that are signed? I would have expected more.

That's too bad about the restaurant. Doctor's offices are nice to have around, but they are low-traffic, short-hours businesses, and better for the 2nd floor of a building. A restaurant would have been much better for the neighborhood.

august - both banks and mortgage brokers as well as a mortgage bank. hope that helps.
zinka those are signed. but there are more which are signed but probably won't be up for awhile as they are overwhelmed with contracts out and updating.
the only units left at this point are the 3-bedrooms. contracts out on the rest.
i too wish there would have been a cafe or restaurant.
BAM would benefit from a cute cafe or bar or restaurant right there...

ps does anyone know much about using a mortgage bank?

august - I've heard there're actual deals at UNFCU, which has approved the building. Based on my inquiry, they don't offer fixed rate for Forte b/c it's still less than 60% sold. But the 10/1 ARM (a 30 year loan) at 4.625% (vs. 5% for fixed) is acceptable, if you might resell within 10 years or could pay off the balance by then (or don't care what the rate will be in 10 years). Chip Allen, the mortgage guy, is super professional & very objective. The rates at this Credit Union are not necessarily the lowest. But their policies & fees are transparent. And the salespersons are not "salesy" at all. Just FYI.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/17126-forte-integrated

Hey guys,
I’m moving the threads for a couple of reasons:
1. “Forte rebooted” was not created under Forte’s main page. Not easy to locate if it’s not on the SE front page. By incorporating the forum, we can check out the discussions as well as the building’s status (in-contracts, recorded sales);
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/16435?page=3
2. There’re already 300 posts in the initial board. We need to make an extra click on the “last page” to see the recent comments.
3. For the new comers: “Forte condos” has been abandoned for a while. However, if you want to check out some history:
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/3021-forte-condos?page=2
Sorry about the inconvenience if you need to rebook email update.
Leom the organizing freak :)

Let's move to Forte Integrated:
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/17126-forte-integrated