Health care Bill and Real Estate?

Millions of people per year will not lose their homes in foreclosure and bankruptcy because of this bill. That is a huge positive impact.

65% of all bankruptcies in America are health related. 78% of all health related bankruptcies are people who have health insurance.

Stop whining about paying your taxes. If you pay too much then you need a better accountant.

This is a positive for RE. HUGE positive.

EVERYTHING is a HUGE POSITIVE for real estate.

EVERYTHING!

Buy now or be priced out forever.

Period, end of discussion.

Oh, I forgot to mention: THE STOCK MARKET IS GOING TO GO UP FOREVER, TOO.

Huge positive.

so Steve you think that people having to worry about their health and the cost of health care is not a positive?

can you please stop being a pissy little negative nelly and add value to a discussion?

One of the pluses for real estate is that investment in real estate is a tax shelter. The higher your taxes the more important it is to have tax shelters.

Even if you don't have a mortgage and own free and clear, the implicit free rent you receive on your property is not subject to federal taxes. (Yes, you do pay real estate taxes - but you effectively also pay real estate taxes when you rent - it is included in the rent you pay.)

This can probably be spun in a number of ways: it hurts real estate here since those who are more likely to buy (the wealthier among us) will likely have to divert more money towards health care, but it also purportedly saves big bucks down the road in preventive care and more risk-sharing in premiums. Frankly, the exact impact on real estate is probably impossible to quantify in any accurate way.

"you think that people having to worry about their health and the cost of health care is not a positive?"

What? Did no one not teach you how not to write with no negatives in the wrong places?

I think people always have to worry about their health. I think the cost of health care is unaffected by this proposal. I think that, bankruptcy or not, you can move to Florida and keep your primary residence.

Ergo - it has no effect on real estate, short- or long-term.

Net gain of $2.1B for NY in health care reform deal

State wouldn’t be penalized for its richer Medicaid payments under proposed amendments to Senate bill that both houses of Congress are expected to reconcile this week.

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20100322/FREE/100329988

After a year of living with uncertainty about how federal health care reform would affect New York, the health care industry got its answer with Sunday night’s historic vote.

Issues in the Senate version of the health reform bill that were unfavorable to New York have been largely—but not entirely—corrected in a separate bill of amendments that both houses of Congress are expected to finalize this week.

The good news is that the state won’t be penalized for its expanded Medicaid program, and will get a net gain of $2.1 billion over the Senate version. One of the key changes to the bill was a change to what are known as Federal medical assistance percentage (FMAP) contributions, which the health care industry believes will help stabilize the funding of New York state’s Medicaid program.

“The changes to the FMAP provisions were critical and a huge win for New York,” said a spokesman for the Greater New York Hospital Association, which, along with the Healthcare Association of New York State and other health care groups, lobbied hard for the changes.

“While the health reform legislation before you is not perfect, it represents an enormous step forward in advancing health care delivery in this country,” GNYHA’s president Kenneth Raske wrote in a memorandum to the state’s Congressional delegation on Saturday, urging passage of the bill.

If the amendment bill in the Senate goes through, primary care doctors will temporarily be paid by Medicaid as least as much as Medicare pays them, for the years 2013 and 2014. The federal government is paying the tab in the hope that states will keep the reimbursement at the higher level after that.

Now for the mixed news. The bill will reduce the amount of cuts to funding that large urban hospitals get for charity care—so-called Medicare disproportionate-share payments—by $7 billion. Those cuts are still too large, say executives at New York hospitals, who are also concerned about the methodology for calculating payments.

The bill cuts the size of Medicare disproportionate share from $25.1 billion to $22.1 billion from 2014 to 2019, compared with the Senate bill. But the cuts also start earlier, in 2014 instead of 2015.

HANYS characterized the cuts to hospital and health systems—even when reduced from $15 billion to $14 billion in the reconciliation bill—as “still too high to ensure successful implementation of health care reform.”

Still, New York as a state had much to be pleased with in the final round.
“New York's congressional delegation has delivered a proposed bill that will lower the federal deficit, hold insurance companies accountable, provide billions of dollars in tax breaks for small businesses to help them insure their employees, and above all expand access to quality, secure, affordable health care coverage for millions of New Yorkers,” Gov. David Paterson said in statement last week.

Alan.... Too long & too deep. As a wise man once said: "Know your audience and keep it stupid".

"The good news is that the state won’t be penalized for its expanded Medicaid program"

And the bad news is - the state can't afford that program.

NOW WHAT?!

Probabky a big negative because it will have an adverse effect on employment and cash
compensation, and because mandated coverage will severely burden people under 35 who are
the bulk of the free market rental population in NYC.

This will be a HUGE NEGATIVE and will bring RE PRICES DOWN! People who can afford to buy in NYC will have less cash due to 1) much higher taxes which are clearly stated in the bill and 2) taxes on premium/cadillac insurance plans. This, combined with the state/city needing to cut services due to financial issues, leads us to people leaving NYC and prices going DOWN, DOWN, DOWN....

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/1962-2001-Fed-GDP.png

Social Security, Medicare,Medicaid as a per cent of GDP....

It just keeps rising.

forgot to add that interest rates are at their lowest. Eventually, they will increase which will also decrease the prices of real estate in NYC. Higher Taxes, higher interest rates, less city services.... Based on this and the taxes triggered by the health plan, real estate in NYC has to come down in price much more.

Everyone says that NYC will not be affected and is stable now, but just look at the history of real estate in NYC. The combination of higher taxes, higher interest rates, and less city services definitely caused a downfall several years back and it will again.....

"Social Security, Medicare,Medicaid as a per cent of GDP..."

You're absolutely right, RS. Which is why fee-for-service is a dead dog. The issue isn't so much Social Security as the fact that most healthcare spending is on trying to keep people alive one more day, who have no chance to live. Like 93-year olds who get hip replacements on the public dime. A waste of money.

Social Security's fix is relatively easy: stop indexing benefits to wages, and start indexing them to inflation. Bingo - problem fixed for the next 150 years.

My brother-in-law the O'Reilly Factor vitriolic Obamacare hater heart surgeon is all against the reforms. His position, when you boil it down, is that he should be able to operate on anyone he wants and charge whatever fee he wants, and the government should pay for it. Of course he wants low taxes at the same time and doesn't recognize that his very expensive education was mostly paid for by the federal government, because the real issue is MINE, MINE, ALL MINE.

That said, my position on overpaid teachers and police officers and transit workers is already known. How they get paid is great politics, but in the end actuarily unsupportable.

We'll never fix health care until the system creates an incentive for the insured to watch cost. We needed to end the system of employer provided coverage... The swiss model should've been used

your ability to state the obvious knows no bounds.

"until the system creates an incentive for the insured to watch cost."

Very good textbook Vienna School, but it won't work. Because it will cause - as currently happens - the healthy not to get insurance and to wait until they need it, thereby driving up the costs for everyone.

The incentives in this case aren't on the side of the insured, they're on the side of the service provider, who is paid for every single service s/he performs. Hence, they perform more services. More tests. Etc.

The Swiss system is similar to what we are about to implement - single payor is the only way to make health insurance work. The demand to stay alive and not be sick is infinite; the supply of resources to do the job is not.

if we took the Republican approach and did NOTHING on health care making people more at risk for heal related bankruptcies, letting premiums double, coverage decrease and millions lose insurance (what happened under 8 years of REpublicans) then RE would be crushed just like it was under Republicans.

Why is it that the party who ruined our country, economy, military, and health care system think they are the ones who are smart enough to fix it?

Republicans did NOTHING for health care reform for 8 years. Now they are trying to block it again.

They have devastated our country we cant afford any more of their "ideas"

More people will have access to less services. Need any serious medical care and you will be going to private doctors and paying huge bucks. Medical industry will be the new wall street.

I have heard from a very credible source that the mortgage tax deduction will be significantly reduced or eliminated for those with income > $250K to help pay for healthcare. Rather than raise the federal rate above 39.6% they'll start eliminating deductions bc they think the headlines won't be as bad.

The mortgage tax deduction should be eliminated, anyway. It skews the price of housing in the short-term, and makes no difference to prices in the long-term.

Keep your dirty socialistical paws off my second home (or boat) mortgage tax deduction!

Single payer is fraught with problems as well and would cause a decline in quality of care. Ending employer provided coverage is the best way to go. If healthy people had the option of low premium catastrophic coverage or something similar, most would buy it.

what do people with chronic conditions do? shoot themselves?

"Single payer is fraught with problems as well and would cause a decline in quality of care."

Not borne out by the evidence. Canada, the UK, and Spain, all with single-payor systems, have healthcare as good as ours. Sure some people have to wait - a form of asset allocation - but that's better (and cheaper) than waiting until it's too late.

For instance, them there low cancer rates in LICC: the real problem is that the Projects People just don't go to the doctor. Until it's too late.

Wait and wait and wait and if it is something other than a cold, they go out of the country.

The crazy thing is that the IRS will be in charge of enforcing the new bill. Not signed up for health insurance? Hmmm.... how about an audit as well.

Canada, the UK and Spain all have better care than the U.S.? See above for more unsupportable theories from steve.

LICC and steve, how are you even quantifying "good" or "better" healthcare? In this debate, people tend to throw a grand qualifier, as if this thing were easy to rank, like a batting average, but it really isn't. Different governments have different goals when it comes to health care, and until now, it's clear that widespread coverage was never really a priority for us, whereas in other countries, that was addressed and deemed important decades ago. In the same fashion, we value advanced technology much more than others (some would say to our detriment). It's not so cut-and-dry as A is better than B. I see way too many discussions where people have learned a handful of "interesting facts" about other countries' health system and seemingly have no qualms about passing judgment on it as a result, when the truth is, you probably need to live under that system or at least study it extensively to really have a point of reference. It's very problematic the way some people are so convinced we have the "best" (or "worst") healthcare in the world.

"Canada, the UK and Spain all have better care than the U.S.? "

Assuming, LICC, that the purpose of health care is to get you to live longer, the US is #38 in the world, after - yes! - Canada (#11), the UK (#22) and Spain (#6):

1 Japan
2 Hong Kong
3 Iceland
4 Switzerland
5 Australia
6 Spain
7 Sweden
8 Israel
9 Macau
10 France
11 Canada
12 Italy
13 New Zealand
14 Norway
15 Singapore
16 Austria
17 Netherlands
18 Martinique
19 Greece
20 Belgium
21 Malta
22 United Kingdom
23 Germany
24 U.S. Virgin Islands ( US)
25 Finland
26 Guadeloupe
27 Channel Islands ( Jersey and Guernsey)
28 Cyprus
29 Ireland
30 Costa Rica
31 Puerto Rico ( US)
32 Luxembourg
33 United Arab Emirates
34 South Korea
35 Chile
36 Denmark
37 Cuba
38 United States

39 Portugal 78.1 75.0 81.2

Everyone is forgetting that this is a REAL ESTATE board and that the subject is the health care bill's impact on real estate in NYC. I'm sure we all have political opinions, but we are not discussing what we think we should have done with healthcare. We are only asking how it will impact real estate..... I, personally, think we are doomed with the new health care bill.

Everyone is forgetting that this is a REAL ESTATE board and that the subject is the health care bill's impact on real estate in NYC. I'm sure we all have political opinions, but we are not discussing what we think we should have done with healthcare. We are only asking how it will impact real estate..... I, personally, think we are doomed with the new health care bill.

No one's forgetting anything. Here: I think a single-payor system will be beneficiary to real estate in Manhattan, because people would live longer and it would cost less.

Does that make you happy?

LICC, go ahead and negate this one as more liberal communism from a biased socialist media outlet:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,136990,00.html

Even the "silver lining" is a dark cloud: unnecessary spending on unnecessary tests does not make for a "better" indication

I don't see this as anything but a negative for Manhattan RE. Great for the currently uninsured, yes. But I don't think they were buying Manhattan condos.

The income levels you essentially need to buy a manhattan apartment means you're on the losing end of the healthcare bill, in that you are now paying for the uninsured.

"The health plan is the third whammy since it applies a 3.8% Medicare tax to capital gains and dividends on families earning more than $250,000 and individuals making more than $200,000."

that 'aint small.

steve, of course you would post things with bad data. That is your forte. All those life expectancy rankings are skewed, because each country has different criteria. For example, the U.S. counts stillborn babies, where many other countries do not.

Seldom right and wrong again steve!

LICC, if you prefer you can look at the CIA World Factbook numbers, which explicitly measure "life expectancy at birth" ... the US is number 49, not Steve's cited 38.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2102rank.html

Canada ... #7
UK ... #36
Spain ... #21

It must be something about ham and bacon, not National Health, right?

moron

More money from me to them.
Bad for my pocket.
Bad for my spending power.
Good for society...assuming all those fresh dollars from my pocket don't fall through the cracks.

The problem is that big brother is calling the shots.
Oh big brother, take care of me when I%u2019m sick and pay all my bills regardless of how I%u2019ve lived my life or what level of responsibility I%u2019ve taken for myself.
Oh big brother, take care of me when I%u2019m old and pay all my bills regardless of how I%u2019ve lived my life or what level of responsibility I%u2019ve taken for myself.
Oh big brother, tell me what I%u2019m allowed eat.
Oh big brother, tell me what I%u2019m allowed to read.
Oh big brother, tell me what I%u2019m allowed to say.

We are depending on big brother when we know big brother is retarded, incapable of learning or telling the truth. Big brother has a track record of making poor decisions and wasting lots of our money.
We created big brother and now we are empowering him on a greater level.
Is this the world we want to live in?

I%u2019m = I'm

Even Wallis & Futuna has a longer average life expectancy at birth than the US.

This healthcare reform is a huge BOON to entrepeneurs. The biggest factor working against American start ups was health care. This bill will allow many smart people to take risks and create new businesses and technologies that they couldnt under the current system.

Sorry Repubs just because the other party had a win doesnt mean that it is bad for the country.

More start ups mean more jobs, more growth, more competitiveness.

It must suck to always be on the wrong side of history.......

alan, you are consistent in posting stupid things, I'll give you that. Why don't you read the actual cite that you posted:

Although estimates and projections start with the same basic data from censuses, surveys, and registration systems, final estimates and projections can differ as a result of factors including data availability, assessment, and methods and protocols.Data availability Researchers may obtain specific country data at different times. Estimates or projections developed before the results of a census have been released will not be as accurate as those that take into account new census results.Assessment Researchers can differ in their assessment of data quality and in their estimates based on the available country data. They often need to adjust their estimates due to such factors as undercounting in a census or underregistration of births or deaths. Methods and protocols Differences in methods and protocols can shape the way estimates and projections are made of fertility, mortality, and international migration, and how these data are integrated with the population data. For example, the US Census Bureau uses a model that projects the population ahead by single years of age, a single year at a time (population statistics used in the Factbook are based on this model), whereas the United Nations model projects five-year age groups forward, five years at a time.

Or, in summation, minute and insignificant differences may exist between various countries' methodologies. Do you think the CIA would publish uncorrelated data?

Mine were from that same source.

And when you plagiarize, LICC, please cite the source:

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/docs/print_faqs.html

I suppose, LICC, because the Census Bureau doesn't make the entire country stand in a room at the same time to do the counting, and some people are missed and some are counted twice, that it's not accurate, either?

What a maroon!

And for once I agree with petrzitz: "The biggest factor working against American start ups was health care."

I noted the source of the paragraph steve. I know you are still working on that reading comprehension thing, but even you should have caught that one.

So to you and alan, data availability, assessment and methods and protocols are "insignificant" You sure haven't changed.

"This healthcare reform is a huge BOON to entrepeneurs. The biggest factor working against American start ups was health care. This bill will allow many smart people to take risks and create new businesses and technologies that they couldnt under the current system."

Perfitz, if you actually knew an entrepreneur (or could even spell one) you'd know you were stupid....
This just put MANDATES on small business that will cost them... get this... MORE.
There is a real reason that small business is complaining like mad about this.

Of course, you're on welfare, so we wouldn't expect you to know this.

> Sorry Repubs just because the other party had a win doesnt mean that it is bad for the country.

Of course, just because Republicans don't like it doesn't mean its a good idea.... if thats the Democratic Party goal, no wonder they keep screwing us...

> More start ups mean more jobs, more growth, more competitiveness.

And less startups mean less jobs, less growth, less competitiveness.

You think thats a GOOD idea?

Jesus, you're a moron.

It must suck to always be on the wrong side of history.......

somewhereelse i have started and sold 5 companies. I am currently in due diligence on the sale of my 6th.

How many companies have you started? Oh yeah ZERO. You work for other people. You are a tool who has never created a job or bought a property but thinks you know more than people who actually have...

"I noted the source of the paragraph steve."

You did? Funny, it must have been deleted b/c there's no citation or link in your post.

Wow, 5 different lemonade stands!

"How many companies have you started? Oh yeah ZERO. You work for other people. You are a tool who has never created a job or bought a property but thinks you know more than people who actually have..."

Wow, at least you are consistent in your lies. 100% wrong, puppy. And, whatever the reason, I'm absolutely smarter than you. Hell, my dog is.

I'm sorry you're broke, but don't take it out on us successful folks. We're just smarter than you.

EVERYONE works for someone else. Onanism isn't fruitful.

Those it does seem to capture petrzitz and LICC's attention.

What were the names of those 5 companies, petrz?

Here's what you get for your healthcare dollar:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/24/health/24birth.html?hp

Fee for service! It's also how LICC wound up circumcised.

> What were the names of those 5 companies, petrz?

He named one after the model wife - Fatty, Inc.
And one after his Las Vegas Investment - Foreclosed Dried Up Lake, Inc.
And another to help himself - English / Math / Science / Government for Dummies, Inc.
And one after his genius predictions - 15% Up by Spring, Inc. dba as "Whoops, it went down 25%"
And the last one after himself - Completely Bankrupt, Inc.

"15% Up by Spring, Inc. dba as "Whoops, it went down 25%" "

LMFAO.

He actually had 6 businesses. Let's not forget the magazine he sold to Conde Nast:

"Chauffeurs Today": we all remember that landmark feature article "How to Outfit Your Prius with a Wetbar"

steve, when I wrote that alan should read the cite that he posted, then used a colon, that signifies that the quote is from that source. I know I have to go slow with you to understand things, but this is getting ridiculous.

We just took a bite out of peoples pay checks. 9% sure sounds inflationary and negative for anyone's standard of living let alone leave money for home purchases....Amazingly the Republicans were right on this issue...

Health insurers say they plan to raise premiums for some Americans as a direct result of the health overhaul in coming weeks, complicating Democrats' efforts to trumpet their signature achievement before the midterm elections.

Aetna Inc., some BlueCross BlueShield plans and other smaller carriers have asked for premium increases of between 1% and 9% to pay for extra benefits required under the law, according to filings with state regulators.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703720004575478200948908976.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_LEFTTopStories

"Health insurers say they plan to raise premiums for some Americans as a direct result of the health overhaul in coming weeks,"

You are such a corporate shill. Health insurance companies would have rasied rates ANYWAY. They are using the bill as an excuse.

California regulators seek up to $9.9 billion in fines from PacifiCare

California regulators are seeking fines of up to $9.9 billion from health insurer PacifiCare over allegations that it repeatedly mismanaged medical claims, lost thousands of patient documents, failed to pay doctors what they were owed and ignored calls to fix the problems.

In court filings and other documents, the California Department of Insurance says PacifiCare violated state law nearly 1 million times from 2006 to 2008 after it was purchased by UnitedHealth Group Inc., the nation's largest health insurance company by revenue.

Regulators said the companies broke promises to maintain smooth operations for 130,000 of PacifiCare's customers, resulting in what insurance officials nationwide believe is the largest fine ever sought against a U.S. health insurer.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-pacificare-unitedhealth-20100908,0,6380098.story

prez...youve come a long way since the alpine days..and youve grown on me...keep up the good work, housing redbaiter so well

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/how-to-haggle-down-your-medical-bills-2013-05-10