Raising your kids in the East Village (why?!)

You sound so bitter. Lol.
"This is my city,get out if you don't live the way I want you to."

As a father of 2 in the city, allow me to opine. I continue to live in the city for a number of reasons, one of which is because I work in the city. If I move to the suburbs, I will spend 3 hours of my day (vs. 1 hr) commuting. Also, I don't want my kids to totally change who I am and what I enjoy - I still love NYC, and don't want to live anywhere else. My apologies for my screaming kids who exacerbate your headache - be glad you don't have to change a diaper and make breakfast at 6 am having come in from the bars 4 hours earlier.

People can choose to live in NYC for fun and interesting reasons or the mundane like being close to work & kids & recreational activities.

Wow, nice b!tch-slap, NYC - so I'm mundane now too?? Add that to the grey hair, balding pate, expanding gut, etc. Getting old sucks...

Being close to work, not having to drive, being able to walk places, recreational activities, not wanting to deal with the upkeep of a house and front lawn, ability to still do things you enjoy without the kids (just "driving into" the city to go to a show or dinner is NOT the same), wanting to raise your kids in a more diverse, varied environment, decreased logistic hassles (being able to get dry cleaning and groceries delivered and even dinner if you're not in the mood to cook), and for middle schools aged and above parents they can get around on their own ..

OT: In case you don't know my story, I'm being self-deprecating. I'm not creative in any way which lends to NYC cool. Just another couple raised in suburbia who are transmogrifying NYC.

Have you eaten in the suburbs? (Sorry you can't get a date Stickman.)

OTNYC, good luck with that. kids wil change you. you still go to bars till 2am? how? none of my business but maybe you should of thought of that before.

living a mundane life and paying double for 1/2 the space. sounds dumb to me. it would not take 3 hours a day btw. I lived/am from North east queens; it took about 1 hour each way.

Don't underestimate the joy of annoying self-absorbed hipsters who like the to think the city is a static place and that children never lived in New York before the year 2000.

kspeak - YES! All of those things, and more. As for downsides, really just space and overcrowded public / hyper-competitive private schools. I LOVE not owning a car...

As an example, last Saturday we woke up, rode the train down to the Brooklyn Bridge, walked over to DUMBO, met friends for lunch, then played in the new Pier 1 park, followed by kick-@ss ice cream at the Bklyn Ice Cream factory. Got back on the 2 train at Clark St., and were home in 25 minutes. Can't imagine a better way to spend a day.

Wonder what my suburban counterparts did?

NYC - ha! No worries, similar situation on my side...

And stick-man -- yes, being out at bars till the wee hours is still on my itinerary occassionally. I suspect it will continue to be until I can no longer walk across the street to the local pub. What should I have thought of before? I knew what I was getting into - love my kids, and still enjoy catching a buzz when I can. Nice thing about the ciy, you can kinda have your cake...

kspeak says . . .

"Being close to work" you got me there

"not having to drive" What? You'd rather ride some slow overpriced dirty crowded subway?

"being able to walk places" big whoop

"recreational activities" likee what taking care of your kids. You're out doing stuff at 11 o'clcok i didn't see youat the bar last night. you do it on weekends and can drive in and do it

"not wanting to deal with the upkeep of a house and front lawn" how much is landscaping 35 a month how about your 700 maint. fee

"ability to still do things you enjoy without the kids (just "driving into" the city to go to a show or dinner is NOT the same)," no comprende

"wanting to raise your kids in a more diverse, varied environment" Bingo you're still trying to fashionable

"decreased logistic hassles (being able to get dry cleaning and groceries delivered and even dinner if you're not in the mood to cook)" you can get food delivered in the burbs. Why people can't walk to get their own food which is like 2 blocks away in most cases in manhattan is beyond me

"and for middle schools aged and above parents they can get around on their own .." yeah it would suck driving them all around. but 5 v 2 means you belong in burbs buddy.

And OK move to UWS. Why the village? Why do you ave to take the coolest place and make it a strip mall?

OK, Stick-man - you kinda just poo-poo'ed all the reasons just about ANYONE has for living here. Why are you here if it bothers you so much??

Stick_man, my sympathies. But we live in a capitalist system and there isn't some kind of regulated thing that kicks people out of the E. Village once they're past 30 and/or they've stopped being creative & artistic & cool. You will be old someday and YOU won't belong in the E. Village either.

stickman, you do realize that the concept that you need 3000 square feet to raise a family in is a post World War II concept, don't you. the spaces most manhattanites are cramming into are not small but longer, historic standards. a lot of people say - what does the extra space really get me ... more junk?

just a reminder the name of the thread is the raising in the village not city. but i gues it still applies to most things.

"Being close to work"
- yep and if someone is working until 7pm, no way they're getting home to kids in burbs before bedtime.

"not having to drive" What? You'd rather ride some slow overpriced dirty crowded subway?
- actually yes, I prefer subway & bus over driving. I LOVE driving but I hate the pollution & waste of resources.

"being able to walk places" big whoop
- welcome to #1 reason or #2 if you're Matt as to why people are out of shape

"recreational activities"
- drive and drink?

"not wanting to deal with the upkeep of a house and front lawn" how much is landscaping 35 a month how about your 700 maint. fee
- it's not the $, you've never owned a house and lawn, I suspect.

"ability to still do things you enjoy without the kids (just "driving into" the city to go to a show or dinner is NOT the same)," no comprende
- we are going in circles

"wanting to raise your kids in a more diverse, varied environment" Bingo you're still trying to fashionable
- I think Manhattan is not diverse in a "good" way, but neither are the burbs

"decreased logistic hassles (being able to get dry cleaning and groceries delivered and even dinner if you're not in the mood to cook)" you can get food delivered in the burbs. Why people can't walk to get their own food which is like 2 blocks away in most cases in manhattan is beyond me
- because you don't have kids who suck up your time
?

hey, i'm ancient, and our family spends a huge amount of time in the east village. our kid is almost old enough to join the ranks of the young trolling the east village. does she become OK when she's able to go out without the parents? what age group would be acceptable? no younger than 20, no older than 35, 45 OK if childless?

"OK, Stick-man - you kinda just poo-poo'ed all the reasons just about ANYONE has for living here. Why are you here if it bothers you so much??"

Not true. It makes sense for me to live here. when i lived in the suburbs i had to go to bed at 10:30 PM to catch some dumb expensive long ass train ride. Then I had to go home at rush hour or otherwise sit there waiting for the train at damn Pen station. Then i had would have to drive in on Sat. nights to party or catch some awful train at like 3AM. or dirve on Sun. it's too far.

Far easier to live in the city in that case.

"Don't underestimate the joy of annoying self-absorbed hipsters who like the to think the city is a static place and that children never lived in New York before the year 2000."

They didn't live in alphabet city in the 90's. The place has changed a lot and maybe not for the better such as this instance; NYU people etc. Go to the damn UWS!

Alright dude - you're not making much sense. So, since I have kids, I should overpay for a long train ride, deal with rush hour at Penn Station, then deal with weekend traffic to enjoy the bars/restaurants/shows/museums that I love??

I think we are in violent agreement - living in the city is much easier. You just don't like that my screaming children make your head hurt - I get that. But you shouldn't be so surprised that I choose to stay in the City.

Stickman, it's true you can't be at bars until 4 am when you have young kids.

But, when they're young, they also go to bed young - like 7 pm or 8 pm - then it's actually really easy to go pop out and do something fun, which I do pretty frequently (sometime my husband stays home and I go meet friends for a drink, sometimes in reverse, sometimes we go out with a babysitter). Yes, you can do these things in the 'burbs but it takes longer to get places, and I really try to do most of my socializing after the kids are in bed so I can spend my waking hours with them. The extra 1/2 to 1 hour is a huge difference.

I personally do agree that the uptown neighborhoods are more kid friendly, but some people love the village with kids. To each their own ... and the West Village has great public schools ...

Oh is that where the heck they're going.

"They didn't live in alphabet city in the 90's." Some did, although likely less. But two points:

1. Expand your knowledge of history to before the decade you were born. That was my point. You think that because something was the trend for one generation that is the way it has always been.

2. If the EV has become a mall why would a young single person be so lame as to live there?

"They didn't live in alphabet city in the 90's. The place has changed a lot and maybe not for the better"

What are you talking about? Avenue B in 1985 was hipster/artist central. Don't speak about what you don't know. What are you 25yrs old? In 1985 you were a twinkle in your dads eye?

Also the real answer as AR will tell you is apt in the evill and small house in the burbs for weekends,holidays ect.

OTNYC says:
"you're not making much sense. So, since I have kids, I should overpay for a long train ride, deal with rush hour at Penn Station, then deal with weekend traffic to enjoy the bars/restaurants/shows/museums that I love??"

1. if you can afford kids you can afford the suburban train.
2. you're not going to bars that much with kids. or you're an irresponsible parent
3. museums and shows? yes you deal with traffic for the few times you go to that. I went to the MET a few months ago and it was the same as I remember it on school trip in the 80's. how often do you do that anyway?

working parents get to see their children. they can even get their exercise walking to work if they really wish to multi-task.

hell, i don't even drive. just because i had the bad grace to procreate doesn't mean i wish to pounce off to the suburbs.

and it was MY east village long before it was yours. so maybe you should just stay out, rather than our moving out.

a little neighborhood history lesson concerning alphabet city young stick....Life on B and 10th

While writing his Pulitzer-Prize-winning musical Rent, Jonathan Larson visited Life Cafe. If you’ve seen the show you probably remember the scene where the characters danced on the tables of Life Cafe and sang La Vie Boheme. Why did Jonathan choose this East Village institution to be in his play of love, life and hope?

The basis of the story behind Rent is akin to Life’s story which is also a story of love, life and hope – and about rent, or rather, trying to pay it. It’s a tale of how the tiny coffee house opened in 1981 almost by accident in the front section of the storefront that a young couple, Kathy and David, rented to live their life and make art. It’s a story about how quickly the cafe became an anchor and the heart of the neighborhood serving inexpensive food and drink while hosting poetry readings, performance, musical and visual art shows in the midst of the culturally explosive1980s East Village rock ‘n roll art scene. It’s a story that provides the answer to the question visitors to the Cafe are always asking, “How’d this place get started anyway?”

Stick-man - we are at the Met about twice a month, at the MOMA and Whitney at least once a month. We are walking distance to about 10 museums (including Met, MONH, Guggenheim, Whitney) and we go to at least one a week. My 2 year old can already identify about a half-dozen top painters by their work, including Degas (her favorite), Picasso, Kandinsky, and Monet, and can identify a dozen dinosaurs. Her 2 year old cousins in the burbs like to sweep.

And just because I can afford a train, doesn't mean I have to. And because I enjoy meeting my friends out for drinks, doesn't make me an irresponsible parent. As K pointed out, they are in bed by 7, and my sister loves to babysit.

You will one day look back at your thoughts from this point in your life and laugh at yourself.

1) It's about not wanting to take the suburban train. And btw, per mile, NYC subway and public transit is way cheaper, if that matters.
2) Why? Does it matter if the child/ren are in bed with caring babysitter that you're out, and you can be home in 20 minutes at 3am after stumbling in cab instead of trying to find a car to get you home to burbs.
3) Why deal? BTW, many of us go to the Met much more frequently than that, and at times that are devoid of school trips.

Look, Stick, I know it's a slow Friday and you got all hot and sweaty on the bus or cycling or whatever.

malthus and moxie

I know what i'm talking about. I still remember the 90s in alphabet city. I stil rememebr not walking 30 feet w/o being offered drugs at night. the only kids i ever saw there were living in section 8 housing. since maybe 6-7 years ago that place has become just another upper east side with some upper west side thrown in for good measure. those places alreay exist so go there. that is my point.

Free country, man. Go to Bushwick or somewhere really gritty with lots of artists.

I'm irresponsible for having a couple glasses of wine once the kids are asleep, when 99% of the time they don't even know I'm gone because they're asleep?

I repeat, do you shower after these long bike rides to work?

So the kids in section 8 housing don't count as children? How would you classify them then?

And I call BS on your drug offer story. Which movie did you see that in?

Only in America do people think when you have kids you should wear frumpy clothes, never socialize, drive a minivan, and never socialize ..

you used to not see kids in tribeca either. nor chelsea.

sometime around 1998, when the lords of finance decided to kick it up a notch, the work day started becoming longer and longer. demands were more capricious. the number of couples with both parents working had been growing steadily. something had to give, and for many parents it was the commuting time. when work takes that much time, even a short subway commute is better than a long one, and both are far better than the train to Katonah.

"the only kids i ever saw there were living in section 8 housing."

are you shooting for completely false statements? or are they just part of your tunnel vision?
of all the non public housing buildings in alphabet city(hundreds and hundreds of them)there were
no parents with children? I personally know several young artist couples who had kids there in the 80's.
why don't we pull up the 1990 census to see how completely ignorant this statement is....

I think the 2-working parent couple had a lot to do with it, and the momentum of the change. The majority of the people I know personally who are staying in the city with kids aren't in Biglaw/Finance or have crazy hours. But they are often a 2-parent working couple or 1 FT and 1 PT combo. PT is easier to do in the city. Or they are bonafide NYC natives, who unlike the natives of the previous generation, didn't rush out to the burbs. I am pleasantly surprised to find that there are a fair number of NYC natives with kids who are staying in the nabe.

And it's easier to use afterschool alternatives in the city, because you can pick up your kids earlier. 1/2h may not seem that long to you, stick_man but it's a big diff. if you can pick up your kids at 6 vs. 6:30. It really is.

nyc10023 says:
1) It's about not wanting to take the suburban train. And btw, per mile, NYC subway and public transit is way cheaper, if that matters

No it's not. When I took the LIRR to work, with a monthly ticket is came out to an avg. of $4.50 a ride for 13 mile commute. My commute this morning cost$2.25 for 2 miles.

"Free country, man. Go to Bushwick or somewhere really gritty with lots of artists."

Malthus. Your going to pull the census site and disprove something I saw? You're really going to tell my the place isn't more gentrified in the pat 6-7 years; even more than the 90s. I know what i saw. no movie.

further if you can only afford section 8 it makes sense to live there. i don't get this whole having kids in the east village of all places thing.

about ready it was not your village. the village has been what it's been for decades now. it certainly was no where to raisie kids even in the 90s. just because malthus know a few tht doesn't change anything. it certainly wasn't anywhere you want raise a kid in the 80s.

no, you don't get it. it was MY village in the '80s and '90s. and now it's still my village in the 2010's, with my child. you're the one who is disgruntled, not me. as i said, many of the neighborhoods have far more children now. including chelsea, which had some definite rough spots in the '80s and has large projects. there were many parts of the UWS where many wouldn't have wanted to raise kids in the '80s.

if i recall correctly, the place where one was offered drugs the most readily was washington square park, not avenue b.

i know a number of people who raised kids in alphabet city in the '90s. get over it.

I raise a kid (a teenager) in Manhattan and ride my bike to and from work. You really can have it all...

Uh, you know about the flat fare thing, right, Sticky..

You remind me of a notorious Bangkok poster with the same handle. His website is NOT work-safe, btw.

"no, you don't get it. it was MY village in the '80s and '90s. and now it's still my village in the 2010's, with my child. you're the one who is disgruntled, not me. as i said, many of the neighborhoods have far more children now. including chelsea, which had some definite rough spots in the '80s and has large projects. there were many parts of the UWS where many wouldn't have wanted to raise kids in the '80s.

if i recall correctly, the place where one was offered drugs the most readily was washington square park, not avenue b.

i know a number of people who raised kids in alphabet city in the '90s. get over it."

You don't even live in the village. What the hell are you talking? You lived in chelsea if i recall. Yeah I get it. You're typical of the middle aged folks i see on the bus. you're a self entitled narcisist. you want your cake and eat it too. you think you got the world by balls. you let your misbehaved kids run amok.

Oh I'm the only one? Go down to Manitobas on Ave. B and talk to some of the regulars there who have been there years. You'll hear comments like "take your baby and get the F out of here" when we hear whinners like yourself about loud music and what not.

I wouldn't hesitate raising my kids in the east village.

What's with the haters?

no, i live in PCV, a few short blocks above 14th and avenue b. we are in the east village at least three times a week.

in the eighties and nineties i lived in chelsea, central village, hell's kitchen, but i was young and mobile and again was in the east village a couple of times a week. i write frequently here of my love for the east village.

yeah, i get it. you're typical of the i'm too cool for the city and your kids are driving me crazy because all i want to do is get wasted with other cool people hipster. there, how's that for overgeneralizing? asshole.

It would be funny if Stick_man were a 40ish yo guy thinking he's cool.

I think stickman is 25 and from jersey and he came into the east village to buy pot when he was 16 and it was soooooo cool.

actually im getting up there not 40 though

(1) Commuting really sucks; (2) I think the perception of the suburbs has changed- they used to be the most desirable place to raise a family, but now a lot of people see the suburbs as a place for poor losers who can't afford to raise children in Manhattan.

"I think stickman is 25 and from jersey and he came into the east village to buy pot when he was 16 and it was soooooo cool."

i already said i was from queens go back and read.

So if Manitoba, which was established in 1999, was only a gleam in some drunk's bloodshot eye when some of us were hanging out in the East Village, I believe that give us the right to tell you and the too cool patrons there to take your lame asses home.

Its good to be with a whinner.

"1) Commuting really sucks; (2) I think the perception of the suburbs has changed- they used to be the most desirable place to raise a family, but now a lot of people see the suburbs as a place for poor losers who can't afford to raise children in Manhattan."

actualyy from reading Bonfire of the vanities that attitude was present in the book and it was written in 81. Again i'm saying the village not really the city.

bob_d, agreed, I think these are all factors? it could reverse but as I always say on the board suburbs are a relatively modern construct and for most of history people have either lived in centralized areas, unless they were farmers. btw, sounds like you live in harlem, where?

I was a screaming little kid on a bus in Manhattan for years, decades and decades ago, and now I'm still a screaming little kid in Manhattan. So what's changed? I'm accompanied by a sidecar instead of a stroller, and the East Village is now cluttered up with Bridge&Tunnels from eastern Queens. So I don't go there anymore.

Manhattan used to have a selective door policy, and it was blissful.

lol at this whole nutty thread

but mostly at the over compensating transplants

Stick_man -- didn't anybody tell you that all the cool childless hipsters have already moved to Bushwick?

i wonder if stick_man's objective was to get people to post comically embarrassing things, so that it would be hard to take them seriously when they talk about anything else? hmmm

my my lucille, aren't you smug. who is embarassed by what they posted?

My post was embarrassing, but not comical.

i'm guessing no one?

"My 2 year old can already identify about a half-dozen top painters by their work, including Degas (her favorite), Picasso, Kandinsky, and Monet, and can identify a dozen dinosaurs. Her 2 year old cousins in the burbs like to sweep."

???

no one here agrees about the village staying like the village? ok great lets have the east village be like the upper west side filled with "men on the move" lawyers and bankers. that sounds like fun.

stick_man, this city transforms all the time. people come, people go, that's life. if the hood no longer reflects who you are, pick up and go to one that does.

i think the gentrification of the east village can hardly be blamed on reproduction

"not having to drive, being able to walk places, recreational activities, not wanting to deal with the upkeep of a house and front lawn"

You know they have condos and towns and walking stuff in the 'burbs, right?

"As an example, last Saturday we woke up, rode the train down to the Brooklyn Bridge, walked over to DUMBO, met friends for lunch, then played in the new Pier 1 park, followed by kick-@ss ice cream at the Bklyn Ice Cream factory. Got back on the 2 train at Clark St., and were home in 25 minutes. Can't imagine a better way to spend a day.

Wonder what my suburban counterparts did?"

Hmmm, meeting friends, having lunch, playing in a park, and then eating ice cream. Certainly can't do that in the suburbs. ;-)

Suburban folks probably did the same thing.... and had a shorter trip.

Btw, you think the Ice Cream Factory is kick ass? Its a nice setting, but that ice cream is really mediocre, sometimes just bad (icy).

"My 2 year old can already identify about a half-dozen top painters by their work, including Degas (her favorite), Picasso, Kandinsky, and Monet, and can identify a dozen dinosaurs. Her 2 year old cousins in the burbs like to sweep."

yeah i too found this odd. not only that but i bet anything it's just romance. can your kid really do these things or do you wish they could so you can be more "cultured" and more in tune with what the NY Times deems to be the "in-crowd" and how much better you are than typical americans living in the suburbs or working class americans. I think picasso is just a cult of personality at this point and is highly overrated and most modern art sucks

no no. i believe OT's kid can do this (that's kind of what makes it an oddity). OT - more power to ya. my 2 y.o says "uh-oh" nonstop and eats her crayons so no need to worry about us stealing your kids spot at the hyper-competitive privates.

"My 2 year old can already identify about a half-dozen top painters by their work, including Degas (her favorite), Picasso, Kandinsky, and Monet, and can identify a dozen dinosaurs. Her 2 year old cousins in the burbs like to sweep."

this whole thread is absurd, but honestly, this quote is the best thing I've ever come across in all of my time on SE - I presume whomever wrote it is just punking us, or if not is the most pompous, pretentious ass I've ever encountered.

Her 2 year old cousins in the burbs sound very productive. I like the way they take personal responsibility for their lives ... they serve as role models for all of us in that respects. I bet they'll grow up to be fast, efficient sweepers, instead of those awful union teachers who leech off of society and like Degas (their favorite), Picasso, Kandinsky, and Monet.

"My 2 year old can already identify about a half-dozen top painters by their work, including Degas (her favorite), Picasso, Kandinsky, and Monet, and can identify a dozen dinosaurs. Her 2 year old cousins in the burbs like to sweep."

I'll take the suburban kid, hands down. Nothing good ever comes from those overbearing anal parents who try to mold their kids by making sure they do nothing that kids actually like to do.

If the kid likes to sweep, great. They're KIDS.

I feel for the parents who are trying to give their two year old an art history class, or french lessons, or whatever stupid thing they do to make up for their own insecurities.

That kid is going to be a mess.

i love that my 2 y.o old loves to swiffer. she steals it from me everytime. then she starts swinging it around daddy's big screen and, sigh, i have to step in. but, it's always good while it lasts.

Whatever. This is EXACTLY what's wrong with our culture. Why is everyone snickering at a 2yo who can recognize some pictures? It may be odd, but I think it's sweet that OT cares so much about his 2yo and wants to show 'em some pretty pictures.

"no, you don't get it. it was MY village in the '80s and '90s. and now it's still my village in the 2010's, with my child."

There were yuppie invaders back then, and there are them now. I don't think being an old invader now makes it any more your village.

The village to me belongs to the people who made it interesting... not the people who just watched. We're tourists no matter how long we've been there.

"love that my 2 y.o old loves to swiffer. she steals it from me everytime. then she starts swinging it around daddy's big screen and, sigh, i have to step in. but, it's always good while it lasts."

Awesome.

"Whatever. This is EXACTLY what's wrong with our culture. Why is everyone snickering at a 2yo who can recognize some pictures? It may be odd, but I think it's sweet that OT cares so much about his 2yo and wants to show 'em some pretty pictures."

We're not snickering at the kid, we're snickering at the insane parents.

Culture is awesome. I hate much of the ignorance we see out there, and I'm all for pushing education and culture and a raising of standards... but this is not that. The kid is fing 2 years old.

This is parents with inferiority complexes trying to make up for it by screwing their children.

That's you projecting your own insecurities. If one wants to teach Tibetan prayer rituals to one's children, one can. It's not about the content, but interacting with your children. I am glad that OT is self-confident enough to teach his kid about Monet et al., against the prevailing "wisdom" which says that it's "anal".

> It's not about the content, but interacting with your children.

Actually, its about children learning how to interact with their peers, not a kid whose best friend is his parents and can't create normal social relationships. Interacting with parents is obviously a good thing, but mistaking teaching your children for trying to create a better you is a horrible mistake.

I've seen these kids time and time again... they're screwed.

Add in parents who talk down about other children - TONS of that on this thread - this kid is going to be a mess.

You assume too much. Ever see 2yos play with each other? They don't really have best friends at that point in time. Sometimes, teaching someone something is just that. No Pygmalion in there.

And unless you are some kind of child psychology expert, I bet you just pick out the odd kids (who are probably odd enough bcs of genetics) and attribute it to their odd parents (again genetics). I like the odd kids, I cherish them - in our culture of everyone-be-the-same, it's refreshing.

2 y.o olds play side by side. they model behavior. it's not until they are closer to 3 that kids start playing together.

you'd be amazed at how many kids became little art experts because of the book Olivia. moma has, iirc, a Monet that shows up in the book. my daughter immediately recognized it and wanted to know where the other pictures were from the book.

kids don't really socialize much before three.

sorry, they mimic behavior.

Speak for yourselves. My 2-year-old was already socializing with 3-year-olds when it was 23 months.

it?

I'm with Alan. If your kids aren't playing with others until 3....

> I like the odd kids, I cherish them - in our culture of everyone-be-the-same, it's refreshing.

We're not talking about odd kids, with interests and curiousity. They're great.

We're talking about the opposite... we're talking about kids with problems because they've been squished by their parents.

At what age do you teach the kids to look down on the suburban counterparts?

'kids don't really socialize much before three'

i guess if you don't consider a salon where they critique the classic visual and literary arts over milk and cookies socializing, then I'd agree with you.

10023 - i'm not sure we're witnessing the truly odd genetic ducks (they're rare, no?). in nyc, speaking generally, it often feels like most are imposters.

printer, it's latte and biscotti

pods

"it?"

... don't be so judgmental. I don't believe in gender-typing children.

I wonder how many two year olds recognize various sports insignias?

"This is parents with inferiority complexes trying to make up for it by screwing their children"

this is true in so many ways

since we're all telling eachother how to raise our children, i think ot's 2 yo is spending way too much time indoors at various badly ventilated museums. 2yos should be spending most of their time outside anyway, breathing fresh air, eating dirt and learning to share. this is true ESPECIALLY if the 2yo in question is "different" enough to be able id half a dozen painters by their work and a dozen dinosaurs by their scull structure and the number of their vertebrae. save yourself staggering future child phych bills and let him just be a kid from now on. at least give him a chance to learn to pretend to be normal.

couldn't agree more lucillebooth - that's why as soon as my 30 month old starts composing symphonies I force him outside to the sandbox. problem is instead of just eating dirt he starts cooking it sous vide and pairing it with a twig demi glace..

"in nyc, speaking generally, it often feels like most are imposters."

agree with this completely

well put, lucille

definitely send them out in thunderstorms to play. or take them to those germ-infested indoor play-spaces to "socialize."

"you do realize that the concept that you need 3000 square feet to raise a family in is a post World War II concept, don't you. the spaces most manhattanites are cramming into are not small but longer, historic standards. a lot of people say - what does the extra space really get me ... more junk?

kspeak, remind us again the square footage of your townhouse?

that's 2 for 2, no? touting the superiority of manhattan's compact and diverse living...from your townhouse while admitting that you plan to send your kids to a 35K per year private school to avoid your harlem gen ed.

can't make this stuff up.