Child safety bars - co-op or personal?

I have never heard of any building charging directly for this. I think it's important to learn what has been done for all other apartments - as in a coop each shareholder must be treated equally, short of a bylaw change.

It is likely you are required to put them in at your expense. Read the bylaws.

Could even be in the proprietary lease. Just put them in and save yourself the hassle of reading lots of boring stuff.

oh and btw, if this was a building obligation all the units would still need them and the cost would be divided among the units so you still end up paying.

I checked on nyc.gov and its pretty clear its the co-op responsiblity. The super wants us to pay $500+ to him personally to install. Its not a huge sum in scheme of things but principle seems to be wrong

nyc.gov does not control the bylaws

Ask to see where in the bylaws or the proprietary lease it says this is your obligation. Nothing wrong with asking to see the bill before paying the balance due requested.

dont be surprised if the staff is trying to milk you because you are new. definitely look into it.

You can always call the managing agent to ask to ask the president or another board member. Coop staffs do not tend to "milk" you.

Don't just "call the managing agent" or the president to ask. You need to see these provisions in the lease, and also make sure that they conform with the relevant law.

The argument "oh and btw, if this was a building obligation all the units would still need them and the cost would be divided among the units so you still end up paying" is totally irrelevant. The question is not whether it makes sense for the coop to pay for your window guards, but whether it is obligated to do so. Obviously the costs will be born by the tenant-shareholders.

Here's why you need to look into this for yourself. Several years ago my coop board offered tenants the opportunity to upgrade their windows at a cheaper rate through a bulk discount. Some people chose to upgrade, some didn't. This happened before I moved in. Fast-forward to today, and it turns out that the proprietary lease requires the coop to keep windows in sound working order. Several of the people who did not pay to upgrade their windows claim--with some merit--that their windows are not working and the building is responsible for replacing them. But the tenants who paid to replace their own windows say--apparently, again, with merit--that they were never informed that the building was responsible for the windows.

Of course, it's still true that whether the building pays or the individual units pay, it's the tenant-shareholders who pay in the end. But it still matters that you make sure that the building takes care of what it is required to take care of.

uws9, How many windows are we talking aobut? I'll do the job for $400, which is still more than double what you should be charged. The super is scamming you.

See http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/html/win/win.shtml

The building owner pays. In a co-op, that's the co-op.

NWT - so in a condo, the apartment owner would pay, as they own the real estate?

i did it myself and it cost me $20 per guard. installation is 15 minutes each. it's just that simple.

when i lived in the coop, the super did it at no charge as it was the responsibility of the coop.

I have lived in both a coop and a condo with kids. In neither case were we charged for child safety bar/lock installations.

Do not say coop staff doesnt try to milk people. Ever have a city inspector show up at a minor job because you didnt 'tip' your super? Ever have a super not agree on something silly until you 'tipped' him?

ab_11218 beat me to it on this one ... the installation is incredibly easy, and the bars are cheap. $500 is an outrageous sum unless you have scores of windows. You'll set a very bad precedent in your dealings with the super if you start overpaying for small simple services.

You should ask the question of the managing agent, then after you receive an answer mention the offer your super made ... just so the agent is aware.

ph41, it might depend on whether windows are defined as common elements. Or the city might consider the condo board to be the owner for this kind of thing.

If anybody's worried about their kid taking a dive, they should do it themselves and worry later about who pays for it.

finally got hold of managing agent and she said it is 100% building responsibility (she said by law) for all co-ops. For condos its the individual owner. Thanks all for advice

you need to have a sit down with that super -

or a beat down -

Remind the super every Xmas when he comes hunting around for tips about that great 1st impression he made on you. Then again, why not let the board know about his behavior?

Small or large co-op? In a small one, don't expect that everyone (or even anyone) knows what the Bylaws or the Lease says. Could be an honest mistake. E.g., I don't think my building has ever dealt with this situation.

an honest mistake by the super, to request 500$ to install some bars. ok.

Again, I stand by me suggestion to ask the managing agent or a board member. If they say, "Yes, the building pays," then your work is done with no research. If they say "You pay," then you are no worse off than you are now and can do all the research you want in an attempt to convince them otherwise. In any event, notwithstanding the tone of many responses to your original post, I would keep the conversations reasoned and friendly and lose the "they are all trying to rip me off" attitude which is rarely productive in even the most contentious situations.

I am sure there are bad apples on the staffs of all types of buildings. All I am saying is that based on my experience, in 3 coops ranging from mid-to-high end over 22 years and in an upscale rental building for a year, no one ever tried to pull one over on me and by treating staff with respect I got respect in return.

Certainly you will get an answer to your question about who pays--I just don't think dropping nuclear bombs will be necessary in the process, and in fact it may be as easy ask a phone call with a question to the managing agent.

am I the only co-op owner here who has a copy of my building's bylaws on the shelf?

ali r.

kyle, 6 hours ago the OP replied
"finally got hold of managing agent and she said it is 100% building responsibility (she said by law) for all co-ops. For condos its the individual owner. Thanks all for advice"

... or were you addressing the thread at large?

Missed that: thanks alanhart. Read too fast and didn't realize it was the OP or what she added.
Ali: I think many bylaws are not that easy for people to understand and things such as window guards are likely discussed under more general provisions than specifically mentioned, thus making it even harder to decipher what the bylaws actually say. That's why I said "ask first" and then research if necessary.