buying a condo in harlem

Geek, why are you so defensive? Could it be you have your doubts? 88 Morningside is also too high, though not as high as Apex. Did I mention that development as a comp? I did not. And as for the others buying at 88 Morningside; I can only speak for myself. I would never buy into a new development where common charges start abnormally high, for whatever reason. They are only going to continue to go up. Again, good luck to you. The Apex is a very nice building with nice layouts. If you can handle the monthly expense, that's great. Enjoy.

There's nothing flawed about it. Your risks are much higher in Chelsea and the West Village. It doesn't matter if it's because of tunnel rats or gangs, the numbers are what the numbers are, and what they measure is the crime rate based on location.

If you're trying to assess what your personal risk of being in a violent crime are, then it's pretty damn low all over the city. When you control for crime where the victims knew each other, the rate plummets.

Don't blame the numbers for you being uncomfortable with a perfectly safe, perfectly nice neighborhood.

No, I've spent a lot of time on the budget and done a lot of work figuring out operating costs of similar buildings. And, I've spent a lot of time explaining it, so I don't have any doubts, personally. It's just interesting that you are ignoring everything to go with your gut... are you an agent for a nearby building, trying to subtly steer people to it instead? :)

An agent? I'm a buyer and the numbers to me don't add up at The Apex, unfortunately.

It was a joke. The numbers don't add up for you because you haven't looked at them!

sledgehammer, Alan was COMPLETELY JOKING. The fact is, your chances of being raped or mugged or stabbed or whatnot are higher in some more expensive areas of Manhattan than they are in 10027 or 10029 (and a couple of other uptown zips, though not all.) No one ever says "don't live in the Village - its not safe!!!!" Or "let's not go to that Gansevort, or to Fiddlstix, or the Apple Store on 14th - that place is DANGEROUS!!!"

You simply choose to ignore the facts.

Geek,

They have the common charge for the largest apartment listed as $2,564. Have they reduced that considerably and not changed it in the listing? If so, what is the common charge now?

uptowndude: Yes, they have come down a lot, and are not changed in the listing. That apartment is expected to be $1401, and after 5 years will go up to $1869. The reason the listing hasn't changed is because they are waiting for the Attorney General's office to approve the amendment to their offering plan. They aren't allowed to advertise the new charges until they're approved.

And, if something does go wrong, they are writing contracts in a way so that you can back out before closing if, for some reason, the common charges don't actually go down.

YOu're talking about 9F?

'To recap: move to Israel, then to Harlem in order to buy a place. No problem.'

Midtownereast...this is a comment that displays nothing more than your desire to continue typing w/o reading, processing or critical thinking...stimulis:responce, stimulis:responce,stimulis:responce, stimulis:responce, "RING" get ready...here comes the treat!

Maybe irrational home buying is Pavlovian in nature. "RING","RING","RING","RING","RING","RING","RING"
Buy now or be priced out forever.

Yes. In general, they've gone from $1.44 per square foot (including terrace space) to $.79 per square foot for five years, at which point it goes up to $1.05, by which point, the owners will take over the condo board, and can vote to cut stuff out of the budget if people don't like their common charges!

The $1.05 is what they're filing with the state, and then offering to cover 25% of that cost for everybody for 5 years.

They lowered the charges mainly by going from high-end luxury amenities to pretty standard amenities. For instance, you were originally paying for far more staff-- there was going to be valet parking just for the residential units.

falcogold: it was just a joke, I don't think he was even trying to make a point with it, it was just funny, though maybe it wasn't to everybody.

uptowndude the common charge at 88 Morningside Avenue are high from the beginning because of the landlease which is relfected on the price of the units common charges. The landlease is about 20 % of the common charges. For instance for a one bedroom 625 sqt ,the common charges are really $ 554.00 a month plus $ 139.00 for the land lease. In the contract, it is stated that the landlease will go up only 1.75 % per year . Much less than futur inflation. So the price of the units are slighlty lower because you pay the landlease($ 139 a month) which could the cost of an extra mortgageof $30000.00 at anothe more expensive place such as 2280 or Apex. So the condo fees are really only 88 cent per sft with 72 units versus 44 units at Apex to pay for any changes in ccs. You have a better view( Morningisde park and downtown), a gym ( better desgiend than Apex....scary color there!!), extra storage space and a better location. It will be easy to rent to a Columbia faculty or student. It is less than 10 minutes walk to the main campus and 6 minutes walk to the school of International Affairs and the school of social work I have done my fare share of condo hunting in the past 6 months and was scared by the condop cc fees at 88. After their explanation of common charges distribution, it made more sense. I don't like new development with less than 50 units to share the cost of many amenities. It is all a question of personal preference.

Falco -- Chill, man. As Geek says, I was just joking. I was picking up on your comment about the Israelis ("In the 80's I knew quite a few Israelis that ventured into Harlem and bought up RE") and how they made a killing. No offense was meant and certainly no deeper meaning about urging people to buy.

globetrotter: 88 morningside was my second choice, and I looked very hard at it. Some comments:

1) Apex was actually significantly cheaper than 88 morningside. I don't remember the exact square footage anymore, but 88 Morningside #8B couldn't have been any more than 1100 square feet, which is $600 per square foot list. At Apex, #8G was listed at $504 per square foot, and probably is selling for a good bit under $500.

2) 88 morningside is a coop. If it were a condo, each unit would be worth 8% more immediately. That gets priced in. Also, the land lease depresses the sale value even more (nobody likes paying extra money for no real reason-- money they wouldn't normally have to pay anywhere else). That means, to compare apples to apples, 88 would be expected to list around $660 per square foot were it a true condo.

3) The difference between a 44 person building and a 51 person building is not too much, all things considered. Let's say your building pays $200K a year in salary. In an average unit for a 51 person building, you'd pay 1.96% of that salary per year in your common charges, which works out to $326 a month. In a 44 person building, you'd pay 2.27% of that salary per year, coming out to $379 a month. Even in a 72 unit building, you are still only saving $147 a month. But Apex is priced so far below market that the extra expense is factored into the sales price. For instance, a $500K unit at the Apex is going to be at least $550K anywhere else. Even if you were paying an extra $200 a month at the Apex, it would take 20 years of paying to make up that discount. And it looks even better for the Apex when you factor in the interest you'd pay on the bigger mortgage, etc.

4) In many cases, like the exterior and the gym, the hotel shares half of the expenses. That doesn't count the residential-only employees of course. But for those things, your common charges are basically the same as if it were an 88 unit building.

5) The gym in 88 morningside isn't even built yet. I'll believe the colors are going to be fine, but I don't think they're planning on the same high-end equipment the Apex has -- a TV an iPod connector in every cardio machine, etc.

6) 88 morningside's storage cages are tiny, and are an attempt to make up for the very disappointing lack of closet space. Apex has lots of closet space in-unit. Master bedrooms have at least one walk-in closet, and some have two master closets. Plus, they have cheap and large storage ROOMS available in the basement.

7) While location is a matter of preference, I think most people will prefer Apex. It is 700 feet from the ACBD entrance, whereas 88 morningside is about 1200 feet away, and you cross more streets there. For people working downtown, the closer to the subway, the better. And, I can tell you, owning two rental properties, you're going to have an easier time renting to professionals than college students. College students don't have as much money to spend renting a luxury apartment, and they often treat the apartments with less respect, even in grad school. Plus, everybody will appreciate being a lot closer to the commerce on 125th and on FDB-- the Duane Reade, the movie theater, the restaurants, etc. That said, these two buildings are close enough together, that I don't think it will be a big deal for anybody. The location is awesome in each case.

In summary, the Apex is actually a condo, not a coop. Its price per square foot is VERY low compared to similar buildings in the neighborhood. Now that the common charges are coming down, it looks like a MUCH better deal than neighboring buildings.

The reason why prices in Harlem are cheap is because no one wants to live there.

You can go on thinking that the only reason they don't want to live there is because they are RACIST, but I will believe that there are valid reasons why people don't want to live there.

A friend of mine, a big muscular white guy from the midwest, said he walked through Harlem, and he noticed some black people following him around. These are the reasons why people don't want to live there.

Just because you are muscular does not make you rational. That in itself is a stupid comment. I met tiny white women who have no issues around the area of Harlem we are discussing. Hey i would not live in certain parts either, but to generalize an area is stupid. And over time every part of NYC was known to not be safe prior to the areas changing and people lived there and survived.

Also prices are working the same way also. In the beginning as an area is just changing, prices are lower then later on when the area has changed, shops, restaurants, etc, start opening and make the area appealing to all.

And who do you know that has considered harlem? My daughter is in school on 84th and columbus and one of her classmates parents are considering moving up to Harlem for the space from the UWS. The mom is maybe 5 feet, and not once did she say i can't move up there because of the people.

And really what you just said was completely racist. At least mention all of harlem and start in about how safe you feel in spanish harlem also. :)

A big muscular friend of mine from the Midwest walks around New York and, when people follow him, he gets titillated.

"I will believe that there are valid reasons why people don't want to live there. A friend of mine, a big muscular white guy from the midwest, said he walked through Harlem, and he noticed some black people following him around. These are the reasons why people don't want to live there."

Is homophobia the valid reason? (Not that there's anything wrong with that.)

Does he pick things up and put them down?

Bob: more and more people want to live there, and the gentrification is both obvious and easy to measure. A valid reason for not wanting to live there would be not enough commerce, too far from downtown, or whatever.

With respect to your friend, it would generally be tough to tell if people were maliciously following him around (unlikely) or whether it was a coincidence. But most of us normally don't notice those kinds of things happening at all, because we are not on edge, looking around, expecting to see the worst. Most likely, your friend has some racial bias and some fear associated with that, and he projected it on people also wandering down 125th or wherever.

That sounds like racism to me. But thankfully, plenty of people are far more enlightened than you and your friend, which is why the neighborhood is actually incredibly nice now.

I was walking down Fifth Avenue in the 50s recently, and I noticed a big muscular guy from the Midwest following me, for blocks. That's why I would never live there.

My roommate in Central Harlem was a tall, muscular red-head. For two years, never had a problem. Nor did any of the white woman in our bldg jogging. alone. At night.

The crime stats back me up.

I will say that there a lot a lot a LOT of gay men in harlem, including many full-on Paris is burning blacktresses. I myself DEFINITELY got cruised and followed by THEM, and noticed them starring at my roommie. So I will bet $1,000 dollars its them or the even more prevalent down-lows following your friend. Your big, muscular friend. hey is he single?

I would also assure you that a big, muscular midwestern man walking around Chelsea or Hell's kitchen woudl be stared at and followed.

I am going to repeat the crime stats for our racist friend bob-d:

You are almost three times as likely to have any sort of personal crime in 10014 (West Village) as 10029 East Harlem from 96th-116th). You are about 25% more likely to be murdered, and 90% more likely to be raped. Three times likelier to be robbed. Over 3x likely to be burglarized.

Similarly, 10014 is more dangerous than 10027 (Park ave to Broadway from about 120th to 135th). Including for murder, rape, robbery, and assault. By a great deal. See:

http://www.clrsearch.com/10014_Demographics/Crime_Statistics?compare=10027

and http://www.clrsearch.com/10014_Demographics/Crime_Statistics?compare=10029

So the actual crime stats say, and have said for YEARS that Harlem is safer. Which is why, in part, the number of non-Hispanic whites has exploded over the past decade, particularly in two zips I mention.

Yet still Bob-D says people have good reason. His reason is that black and Latin people seem really scary.

The last time big muscular men followed me...
1. Got my ass kicked
2. Lost my money
3. Black eye
Never thought to ask if they were from the Midwest.

The only time I ever got mugged, it was a white guy in the West Village. But who cares -- it is just an anecdote, which proves nothing. Anecdotal evidence can skew your perception away from what's reasonable. For instance, many people are unreasonably afraid of flying, even though it's statistically far safer than driving in a car, especially for trips over 500 miles. But due to whatever stories they've heard, or whatever bumps they felt the last time they fly, some people hold a stupid bias that ignores the data.

Since you're ignoring the data, and focusing on the skin color, you're a racist, plain and simple.

midtowngeek I am pleased to know that you prefer Apex. At the end of the day, this is what is mroe important. What is better for each individual is very subjective. However, I would like to clarify soem of yoru comment .These are my answers to your statements.
1) Apex was actually significantly cheaper than 88 morningside. I don't remember the exact square footage anymore, but 88 Morningside #8B couldn't have been any more than 1100 square feet, which is $600 per square foot list.

My comments : I looked at a one bedroom. 88 Morningside was a winner : 8 D at Apex is listed at $662 sft I paid $ 584 per sft . Applying your rule of 8 % more for condo it is 630 sft . Much better than Apex.

2)The land lease depresses the sale value even more (nobody likes paying extra money for no real reason-- money they wouldn't normally have to pay anywhere else). That means, to compare apples to apples, 88 would be expected to list around $660 per square foot were it a true condo.

My comments: Indeed landlease depresses the value but it is a 99 years land lease that is renewable. All buyers and futur buyers in the next 99 years will be dead by the time the lease expires. 88 Morningside is in a better location because it is in more quiet neigborhood, closer to Columbia and facing a park . I did a survey among 20 of my colleagues asking them if they woudl prefer the 2280 location similar to Apex) or the 88 morningside when i was still debating 22 out of 25 said Morningisde avenue. Facing a park is more unique. According to the city of New York it is considered in Morningside Heights:
http://newyorkcity2005.web.infoseek.co.jp/information/maps/morningside-map.html. Do peopel will be willing to pay the landease to be in a better location which is actually only 85 seconds longer walk strolling across the park to the AB line station at 125th.

3) The difference between a 44 person building and a 51 person building is not too much, all things considered. Let's say your building pays $200K a year in salary. In an average unit for a 51 person building, you'd pay 1.96% of that salary per year in your common charges, which works out to $326 a month. In a 44 person building, you'd pay 2.27% of that salary per year, coming out to $379 a month. Even in a 72 unit building, you are still only saving $147 a month. But Apex is priced so far below market that the extra expense is factored into the sales price. For instance, a $500K unit at the Apex is going to be at least $550K anywhere else. Even if you were paying an extra $200 a month at the Apex, it would take 20 years of paying to make up that discount. And it looks even better for the Apex when you factor in the interest you'd pay on the bigger mortgage, etc.

My comment: THe differnece between 44 units and 72 units is statistically signifcant . Your numbers are irrelevant because because you focus on the doorman., there are so many factors other than doorman payment to take into consideration.

4) In many cases, like the exterior and the gym, the hotel shares half of the expenses. That doesn't count the residential-only employees of course. But for those things, your common charges are basically the same as if it were an 88 unit building.

My commnent: The hotel mixed use with Apex can be a deterrant to a lot of buyers. That was a big turn down for me .People who stay for the night are not as considerate of the property as people who pay part of their monthly fees to maintain. Who likes to see total strangers continuously in and out. What about if the hotel is not doing well and is sold to a lower quality hotel chain. i don;t buy into that perk.

5) The gym in 88 morningside isn't even built yet. I'll believe the colors are going to be fine, but I don't think they're planning on the same high-end equipment the Apex has -- a TV an iPod connector in every cardio machine, etc.

My commnents: Who care about the tv I don't like to multi task . I have at my current compelx and I have not watch it in a year. I pod connector....big deal. I can brign my own ipod. I don't thing these are big good saling points. The finishes of PAex are scarry. I would run away from the gym, I fetl dizzy just looking at the room. Overdoes of visual stimualtion, I would fall from the staimasters..

6) 88 morningside's storage cages are tiny, and are an attempt to make up for the very disappointing lack of closet space. Apex has lots of closet space in-unit. Master bedrooms have at least one walk-in closet, and some have two master closets. Plus, they have cheap and large storage ROOMS available in the basement.

My comments; False statement. THe one bedroom I bought as a walk in closset and an addtional closet and space above the w/d. In addition, you have a storage space even if tiny to hide all your junk that you don't want to see anywhere clsoe to your apartment. Luggages, etc...

7) While location is a matter of preference, I think most people will prefer Apex. It is 700 feet from the ACBD entrance, whereas 88 morningside is about 1200 feet away, and you cross more streets there. For people working downtown, the closer to the subway, the better. And, I can tell you, owning two rental properties, you're going to have an easier time renting to professionals than college students. College students don't have as much money to spend renting a luxury apartment, and they often treat the apartments with less respect, even in grad school. Plus, everybody will appreciate being a lot closer to the commerce on 125th and on FDB-- the Duane Reade, the movie theater, the restaurants, etc. That said, these two buildings are close enough together, that I don't think it will be a big deal for anybody. The location is awesome in each case.

My comment. The distance is at this point very irrelevant. For walking 85 seconds more to get to the subway (less than 3 minutes a day r/t to work). People will opt for more quiet and more unique location. how many peopel would rather live by a park yet less than 3 minutes walk to FDB boulevard and 125th street. The location weigh much more than the saving of 85 seconds walk through beautiful browstone rows with trees or the park versus teh magic theater grey facadeand bank rows. I walked oftent during the summer, 125 th is packed with people trying to move around and noise and smell of corner food carts...nothing quaint and desirable about that.

In summary, the Apex is actually a condo, not a coop. Its price per square foot is VERY low compared to similar buildings in the neighborhood. Now that the common charges are coming down, it looks like a MUCH better deal than neighboring buildings.

My commnent:88 is a coop ( condop) but the it does not work as a standard coop board. you can rent with no severe restrictions and you save thousands of dollars upon closing. That is the biggest concern of people buying into standard coop.

globetrotter: I see you're right about the price per square foot on the 1BRs. I only looked at the 2 and 3BR places, where Apex is clearly a whole lot cheaper. I am paying well under $500 per square foot. I suspect those 1BRs will come down so they can move them faster.

The city does NOT consider your side of Morningside Ave to be in Morningside Heights. The park is in the heights, the other side of the street is central harlem. To see, look at the actual city website, eg: http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/neigh_info/mn09_info.shtml

I confronted the broker on that, and she basically said, "we like to call it Morningside Heights because some people have their prejudices, but yes, it is technically central harlem".

The difference between the two buildings due solely to the size of the units (controlling for everything else, like the land lease) should average about $250 a month. Remember, the hotel pays half of anything that affects their space too.

I don't think there's any risk to the land lease whatsoever, but the extra expense is a clear negative, which accounts for the price differential.

Don't know about 88's 1BR closets, but every 2BR and 3BR we saw was seriously lacking in closet space (and the floor plans were a little small). The storage cage is a joke.

The hotel has a separate entrance from the condos. And Starwood generally takes good care of their properties, which is why they're such a dominant upscale hotel vendor. If you believe in the neighborhood at all, it should be easy to believe Starwood can keep a hotel running there, to their usual standard. Other than that, it's a big plus... you may not "multi-task", but most people would prefer the equipment upgrade.

Apex has no issues with sound whatsoever, especially with all units being on high floors. Me, I've got south and west exposures, looking over 123rd, and am not even near FDB. Plus, the central air is a lot more desirable than the bulky PTAC units-- they take up way too much wall space.

And a coop with condo rules is still a coop-- it still depresses the value. You're still paying on an underlying lease. You still have liability if other people in your building don't pay their common charges. You still can get evicted from a place that you own if you break the terms of your agreement with the building-- because you technically own shares and lease your place-- you do not own it. Etc.

Like I said, there was a lot to like about 88 morningside, and it looks like on the 1BR front, it may be as good a deal or better, but the 2BRs at Apex were a vastly better deal.

Let me explain why the risk of issues with common charges is higher in a coop. If the lease doesn't get paid because people aren't paying their fees, then the coop is breaking its lease, and the church would have recourse-- it could even kick everybody out. Similarly, if the taxes don't get paid, the coop will end up liable, not the individuals who aren't kicking in.

With a condo, you own your unit, and are responsible for its obligations. There's no underlying mortgage or lease on the land. If someone doesn't pay their mortgage or rent, they are the only ones at risk of losing their place. If they don't pay their taxes, nobody else in the building need care.

On the other hand, since coop owners are just buying stock in a corporation and rights to lease a particular unit, instead of buying real estate, if they don't pay their common charges, the building has priority over the bank, so is more likely to recover what it's owed in a foreclosure. On the other hand, this is one reason why some banks are more loathe to finance coops.

And, with regard to the Morningside Heights issue, if you click through on that NYC.gov site to the profile document, you'll see that the city considers Morningside Heights to be the area between Amsterdam Ave and the Park, between Cathedral and 122nd. Even the area to the west of Columbia is considered Manhattanville.

The city considers you to be in Central Harlem.

And, with regard to the Morningside Heights issue, if you click through on that NYC.gov site to the profile document, you'll see that the city considers Morningside Heights to be the area between Amsterdam Ave and the Park, between Cathedral and 122nd. Even the area to the west of Columbia is considered Manhattanville.

The city considers you to be in Central Harlem.

MidtownWgeek. I believe we both made good investments because it is an upcoming area. You are right that Morningside Avenue is technically Harlem which make not difference to me but may to others. 2 bedrooms make be a better deal at Apex and one bedroom at 88. The good news is that i fanlly jumped into buying versus renting...half the monthly price. I subletted to a female student my aprmtent for 3 months. She left it impeccable. I believe that a lotf of kids that can afford to go to Columbia can, afford to go to rent in our neighorhood. You just have to make sure you explain clearly the terms and have a good deposit and tkaer good picture of the palce before and after. Thank you for our feedback. it justified my one bedroom as it justified your 2 bedrooms. The future always invovles risk but I think that we can go wrong.

Agreed... I think both buildings are good investments, perhaps even at $600 a sq foot. Nice chatting with you!

Midtownwgeek Do you know approximately how much a one bedroom could rent for in a location such as 88 or Apex ? The closest comparison I could find was the Avalon at 110th and Columbus. I would believe that it would be a lower price than their units but close . Any thoughts ?

I'd bet about $2500-$2700. Most comparable was rented at $2300: http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/713402-rental-2098-frederick-douglass-boulevard-central-harlem-new-york I still think you've got a nicer building.

At the Avalon, I see that 1BRs have rented as low as $2820, but that seems to have gone up to about $3200 now. There's obviously a premium for them for being on the other side of the park, but I would think it shouldn't be more than $500 a month...

midtownwgeek I guess your estimate is realisitc. I went to see the units at 2098 FDb not as nice as 88 My estimate is $400 more than 2098 and $ 500 less than avalon around $2700. 2098 has a mixed of old structure and terracotta color new building. Looks like a Disneyland condo complex.

you can get a 2/2 in the Glenwood at 102nd/1st for $2700. you can get 2/2s for $2500-$3500 all over central harlem in doorma bldgs. You are quotting too high. Waaaay too high.

I certainly didn't look too hard, so you may be right. But a lot of the stuff I saw were in less posh buildings or much farther from the FDB corridor. To me, the east side isn't comparable, nor is 135th and Lennox.

midtownwgeek I conquer. newbuilding with washer /dryer , gym has a premium. jason 10006 you compare apples with oranges.

Let's face it once and for all...
Harlem is the Sisyphus of neighborhoods.
Just when it looks like she's gonna get that boulder to the top of the hill...
That mother f*cker rolls right back down to the bottom.
I CURSE THE GODS THAT CURSE HARLEM!!!

falcogold: That's not how gentrification works. It is more like a ratchet... it generally does not go backward.

What we can face once and for all, is that you seem to be a racist!

jason 10006 The glenwood website specify that a one bedroom starts at $ 2275 per month. The building is in sanish Harlem far from the subway. Need to take a shuttle bus: inconvenient The closest subway is a local. Huge building with no washer and dryer in apartment. Older building . Not that close to services. Remember that the buildings we are referring to are withint 3 mintues walk of a subway that takes less than 7 mintues without any stop to take you to midtown and within 10 minutes walk to an Ivy league school where parents are willing to pay $ 1300 a credit for theri kids education. Again it is all about location, location, location

I work midtown east, so 101 works for me. I also get way more delivers than you will on FDB (all the yorkville and carnegie hill places.)

But I looked extensively in Central and East Harlem. There was not a difference in price for FDB and east harlem below 106th. Like for like, I mean.

Here is one 7th/110th w doorman, 2-1.5 for $2900. http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/703451-condo-1800-adam-clayton-powell-central-harlem-new-york

Here is a 1/1 in Kalhari, $2500 - http://www.corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&listingid=2130855

Here is a HUGE 1300 SF 1/2 with w/d & doorman, built 2008, $3250 124th/FDB:

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/702022-condo-258-st-nicholas-ave-central-harlem-new-york

Here is one on FDB & 113th, doorman, $2300.

http://www.citi-habitats.com/viewlisting.php?adID=704718

This is not as much as you will see in the summer, though.

Income restricted, but new, and in the FDB area:

http://www.nybits.com/apartmentlistings/a10a6b11b2f02a83ee844569f69437c6.html

You have to come see the buildings around FDB The estimate for a one bedroom as we have referred from th beginning but not a two bedroom is close to $ 2500 / $2700. The 1/1 at Kalahari at $ 2500.00 is not in the best section of Harlem . People will pay a premium to be on Morningside Park( 5 minutes walk to Columbia) versus 5th and 116th( 15 minutes to Columbia) ...not as nice amentities around in terms of grocery etc... So my estimate of 2700 is not too far fetch. Go see the $2300 a month at 2098 we are not comnparing the same type of building knowing that there are income restricted units in the complex and it is not with as nice finishes. You need to make a trip out there and compare. I have been working in this seciotn for the past 2 years. i knwo what I am talking about I looked to buy in Spanish Harlem not as nice as west of FDB .

jason10006 this what a one bedroom one the park equidistant to Columbia went for 18 months ago: $ 3200 a month. I am estimating the price down because 88 is not as good of a location.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/555077-rental-1-morningside-drive-morningside-heights-new-york

Geek....you have got to be kidding me!

Globetrotter, I DID look on FDB. Extensively. I JUST showed you a 1300 SF 1 bd 2 bath (easily convertible to a two) with a doorman and WD in Unit, built in 2008, renting NOW for $3250. I looked at this very place back in 2008.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/555077-rental-1-morningside-drive-morningside-heights-new-york

A 2/2 at Brownstone Lane rented very recently for $2900 - December 30. Another 2/2 on Dec 15 for $2700.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/711183-rental-312-west-119th-street-central-harlem-new-york

I know what the fuck I am talking about. I get a street easy alert for harlem every single day.

2 bd 2bth in the fitzgerald, rented for $2550 in Novemeber. WD in unit.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/685660-rental-257-west-117th-street-central-harlem-new-york

windows 123, never lived in, with terrace, 1 bd 1bth for $2450 rented Jan less than two weeks ago. WD in unit.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/703858-rental-117-west-123rd-street-central-harlem-new-york

jason 10006 ok ok you don't need to use the f word to make your point. We could go on and on . I know that if you time your rental right around August and September, you have a better chance to rent for higher..student school year starts right there which is a no brainer for me . Look this tiny one bedroom (565 sft)facing the noisy street on a second floor without a doorman and not close to any express train rented for $ 2200.00 http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/679338-condo-2101-eighth-avenue-central-harlem-new-york. I know that I will be able to get at least $ 2400 for a one bedroom in a better location with view of city and Morningside Park with a doorman. I just need to rent it for $ 1500 to pay the cost of mortgage and cc charges. That should be easy the extra will be bonus money. When the building will be ready for the summer rent will go higher. I agree that $ 2500/$ 2700 may be pushing it it but not so far fetch.

A good time to revive that thread, considering the Crime & Safety report just came out: http://www.dnainfo.com/crime-safety-report/

...Although the overall crime rate went down by 1.5 percent from 2009 to 2010, murders increased for the first time in decades, by 13.8 percent. Robberies climbed by 4.5 percent. Rapes spiked by 13.9 percent; the worst rises were in Harlem, where all three sections %u2014 East Harlem, Central Harlem and West Harlem %u2014 suffered rates that were among the highest in the city. Felony assaults edged up by 1 percent....

Sledgehammer: Did you read the whole report? According to this report (and I have no idea how reliable it is or is not), the "worst" Manhattan neighborhoods from serious crimes were not in Harlem but in much higher rent areas: "As it turned out, many of the report's lowest-ranking neighborhoods were in parts of Manhattan not typically associated with crime. ... Greenwich Village and the Meatpacking District are among the city's most expensive and desirable neighborhoods, but they come in second to last, at No. 68. Blame the thieves: property crime is by far the area's biggest crime concern. Factor out those offenses, and the Village's ranking rises to No. 32. Yet that's still below Inwood and Washington Heights, and even lower than Morris Heights in the Bronx."

lef2009, sledgehammer has a history of difficulty understanding crime and injecting a bit too much prejudice into his/her "analysis."
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/26374-bed-stuy