Florida real estate; My big adventure.

Spoke to a las Vegas investor. Buying 20 to 30 units a pop in the last 2 years with some friends.

His take on the whole mess, 'I should have waited.'

My w67 spidey sense tells me, buy when nyc brokers buy nyc apts and they don't have monies to fly to florida for vaca/flip trips. Hey is that a business write off? :)

Lol. I can't afford NJ! Damn taxes in Rutherford are $14,000 a year for a shi* box! I'll be running the mother ship via satellite connection from "Jupiter".

Allz I gotz to say.... 3257 open houses in manhattan tomorrow. The shitstorm begins anew.

Get yourself a 2 yr plus one yr option on a condo on the water. In 3 yrs we should be closer to a 'normal' mkt wo 80% of sales being bank/short. In my mind, fore/short is more marketing than 'real' bargains. It'll be like a macy sale. There''ll always be another.

I hear ya, looks like we'll be renting down there mid September. I love the place we have a bid on and it's cheap enough not to worry too much, last owners paid $405k, current ask is $163k, we bid $120k and our last "best and final" was $145k and not likely we'll get it, yes that could be a good thing.

Kind of sad going through all these foreclosures, opening draws with family pictures, cute murals on the walls of kids rooms, what a cluster f*** down there. The house we are bidding on, the owners created a prolific garden and looked to be raising orchids out back, I guess another dream ruined.

67th, when the fed turns off the spigot do you see any truth to the hardcore doomers with predictions of a collapsed dollar, hyper inflation and mass social unrest?

$163k when interest rate is 0. When interest rate is 8% =>price? It's not what the last owner bought at, it's where will it go that counts. I got an inside on a $5mm viking. He's asking $2mm, he is ill. His estate will take $500k. So do I do $1.5mm trade today or wait for the $500k? My bet, my wife and I can't earn/net $1mm before this guy croaks.

Nah, I'm not so gloomy. No mass hysteria. No hyper inflation. But equity/gold/commodity bubble will pop, when you can buy treasuries that'll yield 8% verus speculative bubble that'll return 10%., I'd be ballz deep in treasuries and not some wishful goldilocks trade.

In terms of clusterfks, nyc is the same.... We just dress better. 3,300 open houses. Man oh man. That number piling up will make 2009 ( fill in blank).

Keith,
great reporting, thank you so much, please keep it coming.
Good to hear from you, W67.

No, no, no - this can't be. THere was a thread recently where some realt-whore said that "everything good in Florida was gone". Buy now or be priced out of Florida forever!!

Why not buy on Singer island....i vacationed there last summer and thought it was beautiful...is it too expensive?

KeithB,
Once you get back (west) to Jog Road you're technically in Florida but for all practical purposes you are just in a very hot boring part of New York where most of us keep our ageing parents. Did you not notice that every road is dead straight with 4 lanes in both directions? The 4 lanes give the illusion that just perchance you might escape the retiree in the next lane who is speeding and taking his last breath simultaneously .
To be in Florida is to be near the water or...why bother.
Jupiter is beautiful.
Good luck...this is great Florida property hunting time.
Steer clear of country Club living...those communities are doomed.

I'm planning on Ft. Lauderdale, myself, right after my NY property sells. It's hot, but for $300k you can get a 2000 square foot house with a pool on a canal. Can't beat that!

Jupiter's the best! Congrats!

Hey dwell.

Avoid country clubs. Check.

Reminds me of a road trip to Florida way back when. This was bf cell phones etc. A dark skinned friend of mine, decided to go for a run in some non descript hood while we stayed with some Jewish friends of mine. Needless to say, he got lost. Did not know address where we were staying nor phone number. 7 hours later and 10 old people who wouldn't let him use their phone he was at a pay phone 15 miles away. FLMAOzzzzz. Never saw a dark skinned person sun burned bf.

If you have and are willing to spend the money Palm Beach County country clubs are where all the real value is.

Example: www.defalcoauctions.com/pacayacircle.html

I heard it's going for around 700k from over 2.5 million new construction.

What's the flood insurance in Flordia like? Did you faint when you heard how much the premiums are?

33496, thanks for the link. That house is a great example of Florida-tacky. You can just imagine the mildew growing up the walls and through the ducts.

Looking at the map, it's exactly what falcogold1 was talking about. $500K is a lot to live in Delray Beach.

Socialist: depends on location and proximity to ocean. West of a1a or 1 and it's not bad. No Congrats yet we are still looking. Funny Falco, very impressed by the lack of traffic that those 4 laners afford.

Keith good luck! I just bought a little place in Southbury CT...closing end of month! Do what works best for you guys!!!

Yeah, I'd sooner just get a death's waiting room condo in Kings Point (west west Delray Beach) for $10-20K no joke. Furniture stays.

"West67, I had hoped you dead. Too bad for the rest of us."

Wow. I thought I was an A-hole...

Noah: Congrats on the CT move. I know Southbury well since we used to have an annual business meeting at the conference center there. Nice area. We looked at beachfront condos in Ft Myers Beach for several yeas and prices have definitely bounced off their lows for quality units. We were recently in Miami Beach and the same was true there (still bargains but prices moving up).

"What's the flood insurance in Flordia like?"

@SOCIALIST; It's not the flood insurance that will kill you, it's the hurricane insurance. Flood insurance runs about $400 a year for a home at a good elevation (8 feet plus over sea level). Hurricane insurance runs around $2000. That's over and ABOVE the homeowner's insurance of about $4000 per year. Flood insurance and homeowners insurance does not cover ANY kind of wind effect. These rates are for homes that are close to the coast.

With flood insurance, your million dollar manse will only be covered to $250K. With hurricane insurance, your deductible is 2-3% of your home's value. Let's say your house is worth $500K, your deductible could be as high as $15K. So, a bunch of jumbo fallen trees, which will cost $8K to clear out, will not be covered.

A bit of due diligence that many people miss in Florida; check to see if the home has ever been flooded. i'm surprised how many people will buy a ground level home in a beach community, while they are surrounded by homes on stilts or risers. WHY exactly do you think all those other Key West-style homes are on stilts? Just for fun?

BEACH ASSESSMENTS; Another thing I find remarkable; people don't check on the replenishment of beach sand. There are small pockets of beachfront areas that require new sand every 5-7 years, which cost literally millions of dollars. This is borne by the beach front owners. One community I know of assessed the owners $150K EACH. Things to watch for; jetties. If you see one, and you're not on the sandy south side of that jetty, RUN.

I would never buy a single family home on the Atlantic Ocean in Florida (even if I could afford one), of course this is where you would pay the most for wind,flood, home insurance. That said, the friends I have that can actually afford homes on the ocean have enough money not to be sweating the insurance premiums. My sisters house in Delray beach is about a mile from the coast, her total insurance is about $3000 a year, her home in Tampa; it's about $2200 a year.

Other factors are type of construction, you want to stick with CBS (concrete), yes there are stick built homes in beach communities. When buying in Palm Beach County, insurance prices drop as you get further West, example; West of A1A, 1, 95 (cheapest). Another important factor is age of structure (newer homes are built to stricter wind standards). If you buy in a Condo the insurance is often built into the HOA, it is in my friends place.

What we did was get in touch with an insurance agent and when we find a home we may bid on give her the address and she generates a quote for us.

A video of an alligator biting a police car. In Florida of course! Sorry for the commercial :(
http://news.yahoo.com/video/odd-15749658/raw-video-10-foot-gator-chomps-on-patrol-car-25107269

@KEITH: Are you sure your sister has hurricane insurance? It's only provided by Citizens in FL. She might only have homeowners, but maybe that's all she needs.

In beach communities there are piling homes, with pilings driven 15-20 feet in the ground, the same way a bridge is built. It is by far the best choice for near the ocean. The issue in an oceanfront community is liquification of the the ground, which quickly crumbles and sinks concrete block. In Japan, after the sunami, scientist learned the ground was liquified hundred of miles inland, even beyond the apparent reach of the water. Google it. Concrete block footers are not deep enough and concrete block homes aren't locked together using steel hurricane ties.

But then again, I agree, I would never buy beachfront. Even 1/2 mile from the water can make a huge difference in hurricane results.

Most of the houses we were looking at were at least 1-3 miles from the beach and in some cases built in the 1950's. That ground turning to liquid sounds scary, but there are many older condos on or near the beach that were built in the 60's-70's, perhaps hurricanes and earthquake tsunamis yield different results (I know that earthquakes can turn earth "liquid"). I also lived in a home on the ocean in Malibu, on high tides the water came under the front of the house, yeah some of these homes were sagging and stuff, some had to be re fortified,these were built on wooden piling sunk into the sand.

The scarier homes in Malibu were the ones up in the hills,some seen hanging half off, oh yeah and the fires.

What are things like on the West Coast of FL? Have always enjoyed Naples, but recently visited Sarasota - some beautiful beaches along the barrier island - Longboat Key, etc.
Urbandigs - congratulations on Southbury - have lived in nearby Newtown for the last 25 years (but still consider myself a Brooklyn boy). If you ever have any questions, etc - would be happy to help.

I don't know much about the west Coast. But friends that live in those areas tell me the price destruction was much worse and there are many deals to be had.

@SJTMD: If you are looking on a barrier island such as Longboat Key, Anna Maria Island, Captiva, Sanibel, Marco Island, etc., they have done much better than the mainland. Some of the islands, such as Anna Maria, are just small and there's not much space, so investment there is good. Others, like Sanibel have development restrictions, so they weren't (and never will be) overbuilt. They're about 25% off the peak, but they have firmed up nicely and some islands are up 20% Y-O-Y. Island good, but figure at least $500K for even decent. Yes, still $500K. Remember, this is not overbuilt high-rise Miami, this is low density by local laws.

If you get into the mainland, particularly LeHigh Acres (east of Ft Myers) the prices plummeted and I would not invest there. They were undesirable areas at the start of the building boom and a $450K McMansion in the middle of nowhere, with no supporting town was (and still is) a terrible idea. That McMansion may be $150K now, but it's probably missing the A/C, the copper pipes, the appliances, the front door, etc. Fabulous buys on multi-family rental properties, though. Many "investors" lost their shirts on the McMansion speculation and are unloading 3-8 family buildings for cheap. Mainland (mostly) bad. But you can get a nice house with a pool, in a stable neighborhood, for $250K. Foreclosed crap? Condos 2 bed for $50K, houses $100K.

But there are odd green shoots, even on the mainland. The builders are building houses again! Seriously, I had a guy tell me there were 8 new houses within a half mile of his house, just completing now. They're all pre-sold, so no spec homes, but still.

I, personally, would buy a beachfront WATERVIEW condo with a great rental history if it were me. I would have it with a good agent and have it pay for itself until I'm ready to retire. Three beds are hard to find, but they are a better bet because of their scarcity.

No, I'm still not a realtor.

sjtmd - yes, sure do...can u email me pls? noah at youknowwhere dot com..thx!

Just back from Fla. (Mom's Day)

Report from Bal Harbour is that work has picked up on the St. Regis, although they have signs leaning up against the billboard that promises completion in 2011.

Drive at night, though, and a lot of the new buildings in the FLL-Miami corridor are awfully dark. I think the reflation has started, but I think it's going to take several years to run the cycle.

As far as the West Coast, I have a great relationship with Michael Saunders and I can recommend a couple people over there. I love Sarasota, though I'm still mad at the town for taking out the Paul Rudolph-designed high school.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

Reflation has started-> it'll take several years. Flmaozzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

We kissed the bottom-> but prices may go lower!

This is a unique property-> unless a higher unit with better views and cheaper price in the same line gets listed!

Your daughter is smart-> she should become a re borker.

I can not speak for Fort Myers and Naples, but the volume of closings in Sarasota and the surrounding areas (Bradenton, Lakewood Ranch, Lido Key, Siesta Key, Longboat Key, Anna Maria Island) is very strong-- probably as strong as 5 years ago; however, the pricing is the probably the equivalent of 2002-2003. I estimate 50% of the closings are either bank sales or short sales but nonetheless, inventory is moving. There are very good deals and with some exceptions, there are very few buildings that are blacked out like on the East coast of Florida. Many Canadian and European buyers and rentals are still very strong on the coastal properties.

KeithB - Did you ever end up buying in FL?

Yes. Northern Palm Beach County near the ocean.

Yes. Northern Palm Beach County near the ocean about 3 years ago. Prices have stabilized and then some in prime areas. On paper we almost doubled, homes under $500K are scarce in the beach communities of North Palm, Juno and Jupiter. It's getting a little frothy....Lot's of new construction started about a year ago, Toll Brothers are killing it in Juno and Jupiter! New Harborside Marina completed in Jupiter with, condos, shops and restaurants. Miami is full, lots of new construction and prices are over $1000 a F2.

Great thread. Love the commentary by w67thstreet, where is he these days? Flmaozzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Kiethb. It sounds like a very excellent adventure. good to hear it went well for you.

Keithb. No "z" .

No. Just "U".

W67thstreet - still waiting for his $500/sf CPW Classic 7 - Flmaozzzzzzzz!

What w67 said, and then where he put his money are two different things.

He was at least consistent in playing victim. Except when he squatted, he had great form, so strong, not a victim there. And a fast carz. And yachtz. Did he tell us about the watchz? And how many people his wife "touched" to get through medical school. And his mother's beadz, she worked so hard.

KeithB - Thank you for the response. I was down there last weekend (both northeast and southeast) and was blown away by the new construction on the intracoastal in both locales (Flagler County and North Palm Beach). I had not been paying attention; not sure why I was so surprised; just hadn't thought about it in awhile. Congrats on purchasing when you did, or for that matter, purchasing at all in that area. I love it down there (both northeast and southeast) and will never part with my little cottage down there (northeast), unless mother nature takes it away from me.