We are in the process of building a new home and wanted to get a design professional in at the get-go. We are looking to have our 1st floor foyer/hall/staircase and 2nd floor dining area/great room addressed. These are essentially continuous spaces; in addition to some furniture, we plan to include a fireplace eventually (unfortunately we don't have one, it's a builder developed home, not custom).... [more]
We are in the process of building a new home and wanted to get a design professional in at the get-go.
We are looking to have our 1st floor foyer/hall/staircase and 2nd floor dining area/great room addressed. These are essentially continuous spaces; in addition to some furniture, we plan to include a fireplace eventually (unfortunately we don't have one, it's a builder developed home, not custom).
I am overwhelmed by the prospect of budgeting for this! I have used design services in the past (purchased from a furnisher who offers design services), and was pleased with the results, but also felt like their "design services" didn't go much beyond what I could purchase from that store (I like the look of textured wallpaper/ceilings for example, and wouldn't even know where to start with that!).
We found a wonderful person who's design style really resonates with our own tastes, and has received an ASID design award in the past. I really want to go with someone local in my area, for ease of communication. Even after seeing several design portfolios, I didn't really come across anyone else locally whose work seemed to fit with what we were looking for.
We live in a relatively high cost of living area (~1 h from NYC), which I assume figures in to costs quite a bit. Pricing on design services seems so amorphous to me, and I'd be interested to get some input on what to expect from people on this site.
So for the person we are interested in hiring, it is $350 for the initial consultation, $3750 for survey/measurement/layout plan, and then a 40% specification fee on product and 10% specification fee on contracted services, with a minimun specification fee of $8000.
So, I tried to do the math...it seems like it would be a minimum outlay of $20-30K(to the design professionals, does that sound right?). Taking this into account, what should I be expecting for even this "minimal" outlay?
I appreciate that good design comes at a price, but I'm apprehensive about spending a lot, only to receive little in return due to high spec fees. When the designer sets a "minimum specification fee", does that mean I'm going to get a single really great pendant lamp, or can I take it to mean that those spaces will be beautifully, though not lavishly furnished? How can I gauge this?
It's not like buying a car, where you know exactly what you're getting for how much. It was easy with the retail store, because there are no upfront fees, and you pretty much can see what you are getting.
I know this is a really long post...thanks for reading if you've gotten this far, and thanks for all/any feedback you might have!
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Response by Primer05
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 2103
Member since: Jul 2009
I would call DesignINstudio ask for Gary or Terence
347-599-1054 tell them that Jeff from Prime suggested you call, they will take care of you
The design services from the store, while basically helping you purchase from the store, also DESIGNED the space, and that is what you were buying. If you'd just bought things in the store by yourself, you would not have had the look which the design professional helped you achieve.
though I must say I don't know what a "minimum specification fee" means. Does that mean that the designer lays out the entire room - e.g.sizes, placement of furniture, lighting, etc.? But, designer will not specify the actual furnishings - fabrics, drapes, tables, etc.
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Response by ph41
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 3390
Member since: Feb 2008
Primer - please stop with the Builtinstudio already. You and they are having a love fest. Their look is very,very specific, (spare, modern,minimal, etc. etc.).
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Response by helphome
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 110
Member since: Feb 2011
try & get on hgtv for at least one room makeover....good luck!!!!or just watch hgtv religously & u will find thousands of ideas....another thought is to hire a fresh graduate of design. they will be young fresh & on top of things. plus you will get a fair price. we do live in nyc after all.
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Response by Primer05
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 2103
Member since: Jul 2009
Ph1,
Call it what you will. I have and have been working with them on several projects and I think they are great. I am not sure why you think they are very very specific as they are not. Can you tell me what is wrong with recommending someone that is worthy of that recommendation?
Also, I believe I have recommended them about three times, you make it seem as if I am starting threads about them, are you a designer? Do you have a strong background in architecture?
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Response by Bouklis_Group
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 7
Member since: Jan 2010
Contact Bluarch architecture. I am a broker and have worked with the founder Antonio on Several occasions. HE also designed a Restaurant Lounge I am involved in in Astoria Queens. Cienna Lounge. You can check out our design at www.ciennany.com or go to his site www.bluarcharchitecture.com. Hes good at staying within budget as well.
Tom Bouklis
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Response by staciruiz
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 38
Member since: Feb 2007
Are you in West Chester? If so, I have a few referrals for you. Email staci@staciruiz.com.
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Response by ph41
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 3390
Member since: Feb 2008
Primer - my opinion of builtin's aesthetic is based on the images on their website. All very stark, clean, modern. A very specific aesthetic. And they may be absolutely great, but you have recommended them WAY more than 3 times, and now they are returning the favor.
I have very much appreciated your contributions to SE - you seem like a very responsible contractor, and have offered much help on this board. But, come on, you keep recommending them and now they keep recommending you. At a certain point it starts to work against them, and against you.
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Response by Pixel
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 7
Member since: May 2011
Thanks everyone for the input. I like the designer I've found, but am just trying to get a sense of how far my decorating budget will take me given a relatively high specification fee.
ph41-- there is a flat $3750 planning fee which covers measurements, mapping the layout, determining lighting, logistics; on top of that is the $8000 specification fee which is really the design services fee...contracted labor and the actual furnishings are on top of that. Re: the store with design services...I was hoping going with an unattached design professional would lead me away from having to make huge purchases (eg. we already have a great sofa, dining table, etc.) but it seems that would definitely not be the case...
helphome-- where would I even find a fresh graduate of design?
Thanks again...
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Response by ph41
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 3390
Member since: Feb 2008
Pixel -= I still don't understand the difference between the "planning fee" and the "specification fee" - both seem to be the same - design service. Markup ordered furnishings should be covering the "specification fee" and for the $8,000, contracted labor should be included (I am assuming no real construction is involved, just possibly spec's for a sofa, chair, etc.)
Also, re: store with design services- a design professional should be able to work with, around, furnishing which you have and like. they may recommend things which they think might work better, but it is up to you to decide what you like, what works for you, and what you are willing to pay for.
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Response by Pixel
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 7
Member since: May 2011
ph41-- I have to agree...I think these tasks could both be lumped into "design service", but I really have no other point of reference, unfortunately. The design service/specification fee is 30% of product, 10% of contracted labor; these should total a minimum of $8000. At some point, we were planning to have a direct vent gas fireplace put in, since our soon-to-be completed house doesn't have one already (that was a non-negotiable option on our builder delivered, non custom home...grrr).
I love the idea of finding a new graduate with a fresh perspective, but the prospect of trying to put in a fireplace makes me want someone who has already worked on such a project. I think I just need to do more homework though. We've put a hold on proceeding any further until after we've closed to get a clearer idea of what we can actually budget.
I feel like if we lived right in Manhattan we'd have a greater selection of designers to choose from, but I feel like living out in the burbs has made it more challenging for me to find someone with a design style I'm smitten with. We live by the beach and I'm not so into the northeast nautical style which is so ubiquitous here...finding someone who's successfully executed what I'm looking for (the Bali beach house against the backdrop of the Jersey shore!) seems tough to come by...
I appreciate what you are saying but simply recommending someone on this site just gives options to people who are looking for other options. I hope that I never have to tell anyone to stop recommending me because it will work against me. My whole business has been based on recommendations.
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Response by Primer05
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 2103
Member since: Jul 2009
Pixel,
Does that include them actually ordering everything or do they just give you the specs?
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Response by Pixel
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 7
Member since: May 2011
That includes their ordering everything and coordinating any contractors to execute the project...is that what interior designers routinely do?
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Response by helphome
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 110
Member since: Feb 2011
my idea of finding a fresh or recent graduate is brilliant!!! especially if they have a background in architecture.....I would contact the top design schools in Manhatten. Google to find them. I would reach out to the director & run the thought past him. Im quite certain that there is a specific student whom rises like cream to the top of the class & beyond. I believe that students getting their phd in design will have to do a large scale design project as part of their thesis. imagine stumbling upon the next genius in the field who doesnt have the attitude or price tag that usually comes w success. they will be hungry & YOu can really end up stretching your budget. I had my wedding dress designed by a student from Pratt. he was brilliant & I found him through a wedding gown website that featured up & coming designers. It was such a grea experience & i paid a small fraction of the original price i had expected to pay. I continue to use him for pieces ...only now I have to pay more. The price of success!!! I knew him when.... just think!!!
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Response by Primer05
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 2103
Member since: Jul 2009
Pixel,
Yes that is what designers do. There are some designers that will help you choose products and they dont charge 30% of everything.
If you know you want a subzero that costs $6,000.00 do you really want to pay $7,800.00 becuase thats what you will be doing.
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Response by Primer05
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 2103
Member since: Jul 2009
There are some who charge a fixed amount for certian things like drawings and also charge an hourly fee for other services
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Response by ph41
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 3390
Member since: Feb 2008
Primer - that subzero example is a little off as many designers either charge their clients COST of the furniture (i.e. wholesale price which cabn be anywhere from 20% - 40% below retail) + a percentage or straight retail.
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Response by Primer05
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 2103
Member since: Jul 2009
Ph1,
You will never find appliances for more then 10% off. It was just an example, some designers charge 30% of retail, some 30% after discount and dare I say some like BuiltInstudio spec it out and I do all the ordering and purchasing and give the client the discount with zero markup
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Response by PropertyEffects
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 1
Member since: May 2011
Before investing so much - combine interior design concepts with with virtual interior design / virtual renovations. Then you can feel more confident about yours/your designers vision. See some examples at http://www.propertyeffects.com/
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Response by ph41
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 3390
Member since: Feb 2008
primer - having looked at builtin[s website, they do appear to mainly function as architect/designers (with some very cool architectural features and details).
They just do not seem to me to be a "decorator" firm. In other words, not the firm one would go to if you already had the built apartment/house and were looking for sofas, chairs, fabrics, drapes, rugs, etc.to furnish the room (which they might have created). Though, of course, they probably would have designed the shelving to go with their architectural asthetic.
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Response by ph41
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 3390
Member since: Feb 2008
Sorry "to furnish the room which they had NOT created"
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Response by helphome
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 110
Member since: Feb 2011
sorry i totally didnt realize that u were in the burbs.. that does provide more of a challenge..
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Response by ph41
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 3390
Member since: Feb 2008
Pixel - it seems as if you have found a designer you like, and that the main challenge is to educate yourself in the different ways designers charge for their services, and, obviously there are many different ways (flat fee, hourly, percentage of purchases, etc. etc.) you can go to this designer you like and discuss their proposed charges with your input as to possible changes more to your liking/comfort level.
>helphome - I am sure there are a LOT of designers who work in the "burbs" - well to do suburbs are not neglected by design professionals.
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Response by front_porch
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 5321
Member since: Mar 2008
Pixel, I don't know this designer but I took a look at this website and I love her eye. I don't know where you are building, but if this is, say, a $400K house, then $20K is not a ton of money to make the leading rooms make a statement. I think what you should do next is sit down with the designer, and tell her what your budget concerns are, and have her better outline for you what results you're going to get.
You might also try to talk with one of her former clients, who can outline the process of working with her for you without actually having to bill you for the explanation.
I agree with your leaning that since you're working with a builder, you want someone who has a little experience under his/her belt.
ali r.
DG Neary Realty
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Response by Primer05
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 2103
Member since: Jul 2009
Ph1,
I think they just need to update their website. You are correct that their background is more on the architectural side.
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Response by Pixel
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 7
Member since: May 2011
Thanks to everyone for your input. We are relatively new to this process and it really helps to get insight from those with a little more experience with this subject. We do live in a nice suburb, and I think there are many talented designers, but it seems like design-wise it is a much more traditional northeast beach vibe out here. I emailed our (anticipated) designer to get a better grasp on price points and was glad to hear that there is definitely a range. I like the idea of trying to reach out to a former client. Front_porch -- are most designers/clients pretty receptive to that type of inquiry?
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Response by front_porch
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 5321
Member since: Mar 2008
pixel, we're in the third year of a slowdown where the data show that many potential customers have $$$, but are reluctant to spend them.
As a result, everybody I come in contact with who is chasing customers is going the extra mile on the marketing side. No one I can think of would be offended by a request to produce a customer who would give a testimonial -- even if they might have been too "grand" to do such a thing in early 2008.
I think also that you just need to communicate your position here -- "this is the first time we're hiring someone to do this large and integrated a job, teach us what you can offer and what we should expect" -- rather than saying it in a paranoid way -- "How do I know you're not going to rip me off?"
Remember, too, that most (unfortunately not all) people who go into customer-contact businesses actually enjoy customers. In some way, you're giving your designer a chance to "show off" to you what they can do -- who wouldn't want that?
I would call DesignINstudio ask for Gary or Terence
347-599-1054 tell them that Jeff from Prime suggested you call, they will take care of you
Oops BuiltINStudio
www.builtinstudio.com
The design services from the store, while basically helping you purchase from the store, also DESIGNED the space, and that is what you were buying. If you'd just bought things in the store by yourself, you would not have had the look which the design professional helped you achieve.
though I must say I don't know what a "minimum specification fee" means. Does that mean that the designer lays out the entire room - e.g.sizes, placement of furniture, lighting, etc.? But, designer will not specify the actual furnishings - fabrics, drapes, tables, etc.
Primer - please stop with the Builtinstudio already. You and they are having a love fest. Their look is very,very specific, (spare, modern,minimal, etc. etc.).
try & get on hgtv for at least one room makeover....good luck!!!!or just watch hgtv religously & u will find thousands of ideas....another thought is to hire a fresh graduate of design. they will be young fresh & on top of things. plus you will get a fair price. we do live in nyc after all.
Ph1,
Call it what you will. I have and have been working with them on several projects and I think they are great. I am not sure why you think they are very very specific as they are not. Can you tell me what is wrong with recommending someone that is worthy of that recommendation?
Also, I believe I have recommended them about three times, you make it seem as if I am starting threads about them, are you a designer? Do you have a strong background in architecture?
Contact Bluarch architecture. I am a broker and have worked with the founder Antonio on Several occasions. HE also designed a Restaurant Lounge I am involved in in Astoria Queens. Cienna Lounge. You can check out our design at www.ciennany.com or go to his site www.bluarcharchitecture.com. Hes good at staying within budget as well.
Tom Bouklis
Are you in West Chester? If so, I have a few referrals for you. Email staci@staciruiz.com.
Primer - my opinion of builtin's aesthetic is based on the images on their website. All very stark, clean, modern. A very specific aesthetic. And they may be absolutely great, but you have recommended them WAY more than 3 times, and now they are returning the favor.
I have very much appreciated your contributions to SE - you seem like a very responsible contractor, and have offered much help on this board. But, come on, you keep recommending them and now they keep recommending you. At a certain point it starts to work against them, and against you.
Thanks everyone for the input. I like the designer I've found, but am just trying to get a sense of how far my decorating budget will take me given a relatively high specification fee.
ph41-- there is a flat $3750 planning fee which covers measurements, mapping the layout, determining lighting, logistics; on top of that is the $8000 specification fee which is really the design services fee...contracted labor and the actual furnishings are on top of that. Re: the store with design services...I was hoping going with an unattached design professional would lead me away from having to make huge purchases (eg. we already have a great sofa, dining table, etc.) but it seems that would definitely not be the case...
helphome-- where would I even find a fresh graduate of design?
Thanks again...
Pixel -= I still don't understand the difference between the "planning fee" and the "specification fee" - both seem to be the same - design service. Markup ordered furnishings should be covering the "specification fee" and for the $8,000, contracted labor should be included (I am assuming no real construction is involved, just possibly spec's for a sofa, chair, etc.)
Also, re: store with design services- a design professional should be able to work with, around, furnishing which you have and like. they may recommend things which they think might work better, but it is up to you to decide what you like, what works for you, and what you are willing to pay for.
ph41-- I have to agree...I think these tasks could both be lumped into "design service", but I really have no other point of reference, unfortunately. The design service/specification fee is 30% of product, 10% of contracted labor; these should total a minimum of $8000. At some point, we were planning to have a direct vent gas fireplace put in, since our soon-to-be completed house doesn't have one already (that was a non-negotiable option on our builder delivered, non custom home...grrr).
I love the idea of finding a new graduate with a fresh perspective, but the prospect of trying to put in a fireplace makes me want someone who has already worked on such a project. I think I just need to do more homework though. We've put a hold on proceeding any further until after we've closed to get a clearer idea of what we can actually budget.
I feel like if we lived right in Manhattan we'd have a greater selection of designers to choose from, but I feel like living out in the burbs has made it more challenging for me to find someone with a design style I'm smitten with. We live by the beach and I'm not so into the northeast nautical style which is so ubiquitous here...finding someone who's successfully executed what I'm looking for (the Bali beach house against the backdrop of the Jersey shore!) seems tough to come by...
This is the designer's website:
http://www.manningdesigngroup.com/designs/d3.html
Thanks for all the input!
Ph1,
I appreciate what you are saying but simply recommending someone on this site just gives options to people who are looking for other options. I hope that I never have to tell anyone to stop recommending me because it will work against me. My whole business has been based on recommendations.
Pixel,
Does that include them actually ordering everything or do they just give you the specs?
That includes their ordering everything and coordinating any contractors to execute the project...is that what interior designers routinely do?
my idea of finding a fresh or recent graduate is brilliant!!! especially if they have a background in architecture.....I would contact the top design schools in Manhatten. Google to find them. I would reach out to the director & run the thought past him. Im quite certain that there is a specific student whom rises like cream to the top of the class & beyond. I believe that students getting their phd in design will have to do a large scale design project as part of their thesis. imagine stumbling upon the next genius in the field who doesnt have the attitude or price tag that usually comes w success. they will be hungry & YOu can really end up stretching your budget. I had my wedding dress designed by a student from Pratt. he was brilliant & I found him through a wedding gown website that featured up & coming designers. It was such a grea experience & i paid a small fraction of the original price i had expected to pay. I continue to use him for pieces ...only now I have to pay more. The price of success!!! I knew him when.... just think!!!
Pixel,
Yes that is what designers do. There are some designers that will help you choose products and they dont charge 30% of everything.
If you know you want a subzero that costs $6,000.00 do you really want to pay $7,800.00 becuase thats what you will be doing.
There are some who charge a fixed amount for certian things like drawings and also charge an hourly fee for other services
Primer - that subzero example is a little off as many designers either charge their clients COST of the furniture (i.e. wholesale price which cabn be anywhere from 20% - 40% below retail) + a percentage or straight retail.
Ph1,
You will never find appliances for more then 10% off. It was just an example, some designers charge 30% of retail, some 30% after discount and dare I say some like BuiltInstudio spec it out and I do all the ordering and purchasing and give the client the discount with zero markup
Before investing so much - combine interior design concepts with with virtual interior design / virtual renovations. Then you can feel more confident about yours/your designers vision. See some examples at http://www.propertyeffects.com/
primer - having looked at builtin[s website, they do appear to mainly function as architect/designers (with some very cool architectural features and details).
They just do not seem to me to be a "decorator" firm. In other words, not the firm one would go to if you already had the built apartment/house and were looking for sofas, chairs, fabrics, drapes, rugs, etc.to furnish the room (which they might have created). Though, of course, they probably would have designed the shelving to go with their architectural asthetic.
Sorry "to furnish the room which they had NOT created"
sorry i totally didnt realize that u were in the burbs.. that does provide more of a challenge..
Pixel - it seems as if you have found a designer you like, and that the main challenge is to educate yourself in the different ways designers charge for their services, and, obviously there are many different ways (flat fee, hourly, percentage of purchases, etc. etc.) you can go to this designer you like and discuss their proposed charges with your input as to possible changes more to your liking/comfort level.
>helphome - I am sure there are a LOT of designers who work in the "burbs" - well to do suburbs are not neglected by design professionals.
Pixel, I don't know this designer but I took a look at this website and I love her eye. I don't know where you are building, but if this is, say, a $400K house, then $20K is not a ton of money to make the leading rooms make a statement. I think what you should do next is sit down with the designer, and tell her what your budget concerns are, and have her better outline for you what results you're going to get.
You might also try to talk with one of her former clients, who can outline the process of working with her for you without actually having to bill you for the explanation.
I agree with your leaning that since you're working with a builder, you want someone who has a little experience under his/her belt.
ali r.
DG Neary Realty
Ph1,
I think they just need to update their website. You are correct that their background is more on the architectural side.
Thanks to everyone for your input. We are relatively new to this process and it really helps to get insight from those with a little more experience with this subject. We do live in a nice suburb, and I think there are many talented designers, but it seems like design-wise it is a much more traditional northeast beach vibe out here. I emailed our (anticipated) designer to get a better grasp on price points and was glad to hear that there is definitely a range. I like the idea of trying to reach out to a former client. Front_porch -- are most designers/clients pretty receptive to that type of inquiry?
pixel, we're in the third year of a slowdown where the data show that many potential customers have $$$, but are reluctant to spend them.
As a result, everybody I come in contact with who is chasing customers is going the extra mile on the marketing side. No one I can think of would be offended by a request to produce a customer who would give a testimonial -- even if they might have been too "grand" to do such a thing in early 2008.
I think also that you just need to communicate your position here -- "this is the first time we're hiring someone to do this large and integrated a job, teach us what you can offer and what we should expect" -- rather than saying it in a paranoid way -- "How do I know you're not going to rip me off?"
Remember, too, that most (unfortunately not all) people who go into customer-contact businesses actually enjoy customers. In some way, you're giving your designer a chance to "show off" to you what they can do -- who wouldn't want that?
ali r.
DG Neary Realty