Bathroom Renovation

Have you considered installing a window in the shower?

Village,

I renovate bathrooms on a daily bases. I do not think tiling the ceiling is the answer. I find a typical bathroom costs my clients 25-30k (this includes all plumbing branch lines removed and replaced back to the riser, see if your building requires that)

The biggest pitfall I find is when ordering your plumbing. I would only buy at a plumbing supply store like AF supply or Smolka as they generally will give you everything you need. Once a part is missing you could be looking at a delay. I would only purchase items that are in stock

How popular is putting up a piece of glass on the sides to prevent mold and easier to maintain? I just saw that on a HGTV show and it looks pretty good. The glass was off green color.

To renovate a bathroom that size would cost about 10k, & I'm talking about modern tiles,sinks,plumbing etc....If you need assistance email me at aeddie18@aol.com

I find contractor prices in the city to be something akin to robbery.

Ed,

$10,000?

Would that be with a good licensed plumber: $4,500.0
Would that be with a shower body with a thermostatic valve? plumbing fixtures: $5,000.00
Tile: $ 2,000.00
Robern medicine cabinet: $800.00
Light fixture: $300.00
Vanity, sink and faucet: $2,200.00
Saddle: $100.00
Shower doors: $1,600.00

Purchases: $12,000.00
Licensed plumber: $ 4,500.00
Licensed contractor: 12,000-14k

Total: $28,500.00

That is a ballpark price, each bathroom is different. Can you save some money on finishes? Of course. Can you save money on the contractor? of course. Is your contractor going to drop the ceiling 1" so you have all full tiles showing? Some people like a Porsche, some like a Honda. There is nothing wrong with either.

What is the going rate for a "good licensed plumber" in Manhattan? At $150/hour, that would be 30 hours of work for one vanity and sink, one tub/shower, one toilet. What would the contractor get to install the shower door, vanity, tiles? $12,000 - $14,000? Forget Porsche, Honda - what hourly rates are we talking here?

I am not sure renovations like these are charged by the hour. The plumber has to make several trips to the sit including 2 inspections. It is very costly to work in this city. It is also more then "one vanity, tiles/shower, one toilet. Usually they need a building shutdown and install new plumbing lines and shutoffs as well. As for the contractor it is not just installing they have. They have to go purchase and install all the setting and building materials. Don't forget the demo (usually not sheetrock) and the removal of all debris. Waterproofing? a bathroom in Manhattan can take 4-6 weeks so around $2,800 a week. Then there is payroll, payroll taxes and overhead. It isn't as great as some think

Kudos to Primer breaking out his charges, time and cost. I am sure there are people who would do it cheaper especially on the labor part, but you have to repect primer for offering this type of detailed information. At the end of the day, if primer does not find enough takers at these prices, he will have to lower his labor cost.

Got my entire bathroom done for under $5000. NYC people are SUCKERS.

Dealboy,

I am so curious, can you break down your costs for us? The only way a bathroom could be done for $5,000.00 is this:

Remove existing tile
Patch walls and install new ceramic subway tiles (only in tub area)
Reglaze existing tub (300-400)
Install medicine cabinet (not recessed)
Install curtain rod
Install white thermofoil vanity
Install new light fixture

Am I right? There is no way you did a complete gut bathroom in Manhattan for $5,000.00 total

primer, I think people may confuse the term redecorating (I have heard $10k estimate), where all the existing structures remain the same except for replacing the tiles, marble, shower enclosure, and high-end gut renovation, which seems to be what you were quoting.

dealboy, please get a Google account or something, and post pictures. I want to see that famous $5,000 bathroom of yours.

primer....in all seriousness, here is a link to a bunch of places selling a roburn medicine cabinet. prices range around $200 plus or minus.
i had multiple grohe shower bodies and trim installed about 5 yrs ago for around $1,200 each (obviously not including any plumbing---just the cost of the hardware). what am i missing?

link to roburn: http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=robern+medicine+cabinet+prices&hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&prmd=imvns&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.,cf.osb&biw=1287&bih=632&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=1428809268243799833&sa=X&ei=10n-Tq6pC-GO0gHCv8mSAg&ved=0CIIBEPMCMAE#ps-sellers

So if columbiacounty uses the phrase "in all seriousness", then everything's supposed to be ok and primer can ignore all of the past vitriol directed at him by columbiacounty?

Columbia,

You are missing many things
1. Who wants a 14" medicine cabinet?
2. Tub?
3. Toilet?
4. All accessories?
5. Sink?
6. Hand held?

tax? delivery?

ok...how about the price on the grohe shower bodies?

Primer, how much to cover up a window in the shower?

fair enough on the roburn. you're absolutely right.

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?client=safari&rls=en&q=robern+23+by+30+medicine&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=416153175563322184&sa=X&ei=EFj-TsTMA6PL0QH-uf2cAg&ved=0CIABEPMCMAM#ps-sellers

but i remain perplexed about the price you've quoted on the shower bodies all in.

"fair enough on the roburn. you're absolutely right."

An olive branch?
Or a trojan horse?

Columbia,

It is not just the shower body , it is also plumbing fixtures. Tub, all accessories, toilet.

Keep in mind it could be less and it could be more as well for the tiles and vanity and labor depending on many factors.

Primer, why don't you ask columbiacounty the nature of his expertise?

Surely no one would take the word of someone who merely had "multiple grohe shower bodies and trim installed about 5 yrs ago" over your word, unless there's something much more substantive in his background and expertise.

ugh, the more I read the less I even want to think about renovating a bathroom....
and yet I really want this....
http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/chicago/tile-stone-countertops/bathroom-tour-from-bungalow-tile-046596
plus a claw-foot tub....

I am going to shoot myself now since this would probs be at least $30K....
ugh....

Ed1802, are you a contractor? Can you share some of your work?

ACH,

That bathroom would probably be less

1. The tiles are ceramic which are less expensive
2. The tiles are not going to the ceiling

Do you live in a prewar? I ask because if the walls are sheetrock it will be less. You can also but American Standard or similar and the cost can go down

Primer is right on pricing estimates time and time again. People love a "look" because of details and then are shocked those details cost money. Look at the photo ACH posts. On the left is what looks like a custom trustile closet door with nickel plated hinges. I assume the doorknob would match the hinges. Just these elements will cost about $1000-1500. If you want a mirrored back on the door the price just went up. Want moulding around the door? Add more. Want some corner type shower baskets with matching finishes? You're eyes wil fall out when you see what Samuel Heath charges for those. Now add the cost of labor. $5000? Right.

kyle, you don't know anything. columbiacounty "had multiple grohe shower bodies and trim installed about 5 yrs ago for around $1,200 each "

contractors charge 25k to renovate a bathroom for one simple reason

Do not use non-skid tiles on the floor. We were told this is what we wanted because any others will be slippery when wet. Well all they do is get dirty really fast, and you can't get the floor clean because the non-skid aspect of them chews up any sponge you use.

Primer: yeah, it's prewar. I think a clawfoot tub will be a large expense, though.
Will be contacting you shorty, I think.

Kylewest: my bathroom is only 4x9, so having that closet is not needed and won't fit. :)
But I love the console sink, and mostly the way the tiling is done.

So, wall tiles can be ceramic, but wall tiles should be either marble or porcelain? I am asking bc I have never see the tiles like in that bathroom in porcelain, and not marble. And I like the fact that the mosaic does not look so puny.

thanks

oops....
I meant of course:

So, wall tiles can be ceramic, but FLOOR tiles should be either marble or porcelain? I am asking bc I have never see the tiles like in that bathroom in porcelain, and not marble. And I like the fact that the mosaic does not look so puny/tiny.

Arc

The floor tiles can be ceramic but they are not as nice as marble. They do not make porcelain tile like that. Keep in mind that the marble can be expensive $20.00 sq ft. You will not need that much.

Primer - I agree that marble is probably one of the best, classic looks to have in a bathroom. What is the approximate premium in labor (per sq ft) to having a marble bath to just basic tile? Thanks...

kilewest and primer are right that an all new renovation costs money. Personally, I asked what can't I tolerate? I decided that the old pitted American Standard brass fittings, cheap marquee light fixture, oversized vanity mirror and builder-grade medicine cabinet had to go. To change the shower handle, I had to change the valve in the wall, which required a full day's work outside the apartment. I polished the existing marble and cleaned up the grout, addressed some minor wallboard issues and repainted everywhere. Everything else was swapped out: new Grohe nickel fittings throughout, recessed Robern medicine cabinets, a modern light fixture, and custom doors to match the rest of the apartment. Not only did I save a lot of older material that didn't bother me, it still looks up-to-date without spending more than $5,000.

To put my cheap bathroom renovation in perspective, I've spent about $110 psf to replace wood floors, interior doors and all appliances, air conditioners, countertops, and bathroom fittings to better than builder grade. With my historical purchase price of $327 psf, I couldn't justify spending more, even if a higher end renovation would have added more value to the next owner.

What are the advantages/disadvantages to installing a wood floor in a bathroom (as opposed to tile). And if wood floors are not a problem, are regular wood vs. engineered wood floors equally ok?

And when installing a new floor, have you ever installed a form of heating coil under the floor?

Seriously? Wood? Water and wood do not mix in an indoor environment. There are no advantages to wood in a bathroom. None.

Hire a guy at a day rate of $200/day.
Remove all wall tiles and retile. ($200 in tile? I honestly don't recall)
Cover floor directly with new tile.
New marble threshhold ($20?)
New toilet ($200?)
New sink/faucets/vanity ($200?)
New mirror/medicine cabinet ($100?)
New lamp ($20?)
New shower rod ($10?)
New shower curtain ($10)
Leave tub as is.
Easily comes in under $5k...

>dealboy "Hire a guy at a day rate of $200/day." (this of course is skilled labor, LOL).
"New sink/faucets/vanity ($200?) New mirror/medicine cabinet ($100?)Cover floor directly with new tile " Etc. Etc.
Are you serious? This is worse than the CHEAPEST landlord renovation that could be imagined.

dealboy, you are the guy who was trying to get rid of his tenant because the lease you negotiated was too low, right? or was that someone else?

Everything was from Home Depot. Call it cheap if you want. Bathroom looks great and looks nice and updated.

Dealboy,

I think the problem is you call people "suckers" because they spend money doing there renovation when yours costs $5,000.00

It turns out that you purchased some very inexpensive finishes which is fine but I do not know how you can call others names who want to buy nicer products. I don't think anything is wrong with what you did and there is nothing wrong with someone spending 30k to gut renovate their bathroom

Primer, why are you even bothering to address this? Your work yields an end product that is a completely different animal. It is like discussing what you like about a bespoke suit with someone who says the suit they got at j press that comes with two pairs of pants is perfectly fine and looks great. To each his own.

We did a gut renovation of a two bed, two bathroom co-op in an UWS post-war bldg seven years ago. I used to buy everything at Home Depot or like places, usually the cheapest possible. But would have been very short-sighted to do so in this particular apartment. In master bath (4 x 12) we used glass shower and backsplash tiles, vermont slate floor tile, toto toilet, frameless shower door, new big mirrored vanity and wall mirror, new lighting, framless shower door. Shower and bath fixtures were combination of Kohler (sink) and California Faucet (Dornbracht knock-off), granite counters. Non-shower walls are painted sheetrock. Also installed custom built cabinets. Other bathroom (also 4 x 10 plus tun area) has toto toilet, American Standard sink, California Faucet fixtures for sink and tub/shower, Elterwater slate floor, subway tiles in shower/tub, cheap fiberglass deep Kohler tub. Also custom cabinet and new lighting, all new plumbing and electric (in both). Used a mid-range (price-wise) contractor who subbed out the plumbing and electrical work. Bathrooms are beautiful and have held up very well with lots of use. Costs are in line with what Primer described and detailed (our contractor broke out his estimate in a very similar fashion). Manhattan is off the charts for construction costs compared with non-NYC work -- but -- ya get what ya pay for. Most coops will not approve plans that will be implemented by a "day laborer" especially when wet areas are being refurbished, for concern that errors will damage other apartments (co-op liability) and that a day laborer has no skin in the game (aside from their daily fee) if they screw up and it impacts the building and others share owners.

dealboy, you are talking about basis rental finishes. 300 mercer building, where I uses to live, uses something similar. For post-war small main bath 5*7, it costs them 7-8k to renovate. Every think stays in place. Basic functional stuff, nothing remotely luxurious. The moment you go higher end, the cost escalates. THis is very similar to clothing - functioning of gap, J crew, prada, brunello cuccinelli is the same but the look, feel and durability is differnt. The same goes for renovation.

On a side note, may people who live in rentals forget to adjust for lesser quality of rental buildings when doing buy vs rent calculations.

tell me again how a plumber is charging 10k for bathroom work, regardless of what they are doing in there?

Oh yes, I forgot, this is mahnattan, where even a nanny is entitled to 1000/week off the books, rofl.

Kylewest,

My answer to you is, you are right.

Primer...I'm currently in contract on a 2.5 bath unit. I basically want to make them feel as new, so i will be re-grouting and glazing. Possibly replacing the fixtures. What would you estimate this costing? Master bath has a his and hers sink, a tub and a stand up shower. second bathroom has a tub. thanks.

Mainiac,

I need more info. I responded to your other post. If you want call me tomorrow 646-436-3942 and I should be able to give you a budget

Just when you thought this topic was put to rest...
Primer05, do you recommend replacing branch lines to the fixtures in old prewars where probably nobody has touched the inside of the walls since it they were erected (early 1900's)? Or would you advise, if the building permits, just leaving the wall as is, install new fixtures without opening the wall, then just retiling for an updated bath?

The super of my building said "those pipes in there will last a hundred years", which I take to mean, the branches don't need replacing, the contractor just wants to make more money. On the other hand I'm thinking "Yeah, a hundred years is just about where we are today..."
Another contractor told me pipes corrode as soon as you open the walls...

Macau,

I would recommend that you do replace the branch lines back to the riser. If you are renovating your bathroom you have to demo the walls anyway.

Good point, as ever. Thank you!

We are currently renovating a 5x7 Bathroom - just as small as possible. The cost is about $26000-27000. We had to replace all the plumbing back to the risers (per the building.) and the lead pan under the shower. (There is no tub). Everything, but the medicine cabinets were replaced. After doing several renovation projects, we have learned that "you get what you pay for". Incidentally, we had explored the idea of merely sprucing up the bathroom, and that came to $15000. Nothing is inexpensive in New York!