Question on FSBO and Brokers

for heaven's sake, of course you can. If you had a typical sales arrangement, you would have already negotiated commission with your listing agreement, and that number would be published internally in real estate listing systems ("co-broke is 2.75%" or whatever).

But since buyer's broker hasn't seen a published number, either he has to negotiate with his clients to pay him (which is the way it sometimes works) or negotiate with you to get paid.

If you're interested in a one-off (we would not charge a full 6% for something like this) email me at ali [at] dgneary [dot] com. I am running to a closing, but I will still get back to you.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty
member, Real Estate Board of New York

if you are the FSBO and someone comes in with a broker...that's not your problem. if you have an interested buyer why would you want to hire your own broker? the whole point of FSBO is more $$$$ in your pocket. if they have a broker and you have a broker = less $$$ for you.

that's insane. offer them 2% or tell them to go f*&%k themselves. if this is one of the big brokerages, i would get in touch with the head of the office and file a complaint.

offer the a 6-pack and tell them "thanks for the buyer."

Tell the broker to suck it. You are selling it yourself, hence FSBO, and thus has decided that you aren't paying a commission to a broker. The buyer's broker's compensation is to be negotiated between him and his client.

"Buyer's broker is demanding a 6%"

demanding from whom?

Sniper - I am the Seller and agree with you, but the broker did bring a buyer and I did not object as I assumed the maximum I would pay is 3%. The buyer's offer was fair and I can accept it only if the broker takes a 3% commission (not 6%). The whole point of me choosing FSBO was to save broker fees. Since the broker provided me with a buyer, I cannot simply cut the broker out as this will open me up to being sued right?. Seems like I either have accept the 6% or the deal will fall through. What are my options?

ab_11218
25 minutes ago
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report abuse that's insane. offer them 2% or tell them to go f*&%k themselves. if this is one of the big brokerages, i would get in touch with the head of the office and file a complaint.

what exactly would the complaint be? that the broker is a tough negotiator?

sued for what? the usual issue with FSBO is that brokers won't bring their clients unless a commish is being specifically offered. did you specifically state anywhere on your listing/marketing materials/upon your meeting...that a commish was being offered to broker?

full disclosure: i have bought and sold FSBO in NYC so I have some experience with this.

sounds like you are a FSBO who "welcomes buyers brokers" and I think a 3% commission to the buyer broker of record on the transaction is more than reasonable. I think the broker so called demanding 6% is ridiculous and wrong. He can demand whatever he wants. Offer him the 3% as u suggest, and if he has a problem with it, ask to talk to his sales manager or just do it on your own assuming you know the brokers office information. Many FSBO's wish to save 50% of a commission by eliminating the sell side of the equation. And many FSBOs understand that its to their interest to "welcome buyer brokers" as many buyers have a broker with whom they worked with for a while and may be loyal to.

No, I did not state in writing in my ad that I would pay any commission. When the broker called to make the appointment, she asked if I would pay a commission and I said yes, but we did not discuss specific percentages at that time. When the offer came in, the broker presented it with a 6% commission.

Pay them 2-3%

For 6%, they should be looking out for YOUR interests, which is clearly not the case here

I would out of principal offer this guy nothing. He is trying to play you and should be rewarded for his deceitfulness with a big zero. Very unethical.

WestVillageSeller
15 minutes ago
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No, I did not state in writing in my ad that I would pay any commission. When the broker called to make the appointment, she asked if I would pay a commission and I said yes, but we did not discuss specific percentages at that time. When the offer came in, the broker presented it with a 6% commission.

NEGOTIATE

Unfortuately, the buyers broker is the owner/broker of their own firm, so can't complain to anyone besides REBNY. If I offer 3% and the broker declines, can I still transact with the buyer and cut the broker out completely? I have the buyer's contact info.

there is NO WAY you should/will pay that broker 6%. Let him know that his offer indicates a 6% commission but you are only offering 1.5 to 2% (or whatever you are willing to give).

fck brokers

the buyer may have signed something with the broker. you may need to wait until that expires. could be worth it.

WestVilliageSeller, if you offer 2%-2.5%, the broker will take it...as most transactions, unfortunately, are co-broken in Manhattan. I have yet to see a broker refuse money. Tell him a bird i hand is worth 2 in the bush and to stop being a greedy bastard, or you will not entertain his client.

This is an especially greedy broker. Quite frankly, you should tell him to go f himself, and tell his buyer to come back later for a 3% discount.

But, if you are desparate to sell, and this broker maybe senses that and is trying to take advantage of you, offer him 2% see what he says.

Why dont you run this by your lawyer?

you can try to work with the broker about 2-2.5%. if she says no, contact the buyer (you have their info) and let them know what is going on. you have nothing signed with her, so you can go right around her. it will be up to the buyer to decide how to proceed.

You don't owe the broker anything - you have no contract with them. Chances are the buyer found your place on StreetEasy or wherever and had the broker call you. I don't understand where these people get their chutzpah, but you owe that broker nothing. I would offer them 1% and only as an "accommodation" - before that, I would contact the manging broker of their firm and talk to them explaining the situation.

or tell the buyer: " your offer works for me and i want to accept it...but your broker thinks he deserves a 6% commission - that I never agreed to nor am I willing to pay him. this puts me in a position where i would have to add 6% to your offer to be able to accept it. if you are okay with that, let's do it. I will sign the contracts right now. if not, i think you should talk to your broker about his commission."

a) yes, run this by your lawyer IF the broker declined the 3%
b) no buyer broker gets a 6% commission..its like he/she expects a direct deal on buy side..makes no sense, and sounds very very greedy on broker behalf. 2.5%-3% is the norm for buy side commission on co-brokered deals
c) I like sniper's response if the broker declines...let the buyer see how their broker is not acting in their best interests and if he requires more than 3%, which is completely normal and reasonable, that it will have to be settled privately or added to the purchase price

i would love to know this brokers name/firm after this closes

Agree with above comments. If you have buyers contact info, ideally you could cc them on an email to the buyer's broker saying you accept the offering price but will only kick in 2% commission -- this way you're protected against the broker blatantly lying to their client about your response... a shady broker like this might let the deal die and keep shopping with their client for a different apt.

gcondo
about 2 hours ago
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report abuse how do you like having the the broker test to see if you were stupid enough to take 6%, rather than deal with you on the level?

If I were you, I would not allow the broker to attend the closing.

the broker represents the buyer, so the owner has no right to tell him/her to attend closing. besides, he has to cut this broker a nice fat check for finding him a buyer. so maybe you should shut the fuck up now. another deal, brought to you be the ny re community.

gcondo
about 2 hours ago
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report abuse how do you like having the the broker test to see if you were stupid enough to take 6%, rather than deal with you on the level?

If I were you, I would not allow the broker to attend the closing.

since the broker represents the buyer, it isn't really the seller's place to say whether or not he can attend the closing. also, this is where the seller has to turn over a wad of cash to the broker, for bringing him a qualified buyer. so why don't you shut the fuck up now, retard?

WestVillageSeller- This situation is easily handled. I think you are letting this broker attempt to manipulate you. You have several choices, and remember the power is all yours- you are the owner of the apartment in question and you signed no legal document that entitles this person to any commission whatsoever! Any good agent would IN ADVANCE discuss with the seller exactly what commission would be paid and GET IT IN WRITING signed by the seller. This agent did neither and is now hilariously trying to pressure you to her demands. The truth is you could quite easily cut her out completely with little to no legal repercussions. It sounds like you want to be fair. Offer her 3 percent which is totally reasonable, if she does not agree offer her nothing and call the buyer directly. I cannot imagine that the buyer has anything signed with her, so she would lose on both ends. Is she really going to hire an attorney and sue you? It would cost her the entire amount of any commission, and she would lose.
On a side note, just make sure that this buyer is qualified and will pass the board- if this agent cannot even communicate clearly with you, who knows if her details on the buyer are accurate.
It never ceases to amaze me the level of greed out there. Doing a job the right way and fairly will get you more business every time.
If you have any questions email me a dmargolies@corcoran.com --

One of the few threads I've read where EVERYONE is in agreement: that says something. My advice is to offer this broker 2% on a take it or leave it basis. And if she refuses, your parting words could be along the lines that she obviously 100% of nothing compared to two thirds of the usual buyer side commission. What's the point of an FSBO if your going to be browbeaten into forking over 6%. You haven't saved a dime and you'll be disgusted with yourself for a long time. If you made any mistake at all, it was neglecting to inform this broker what you would be willing to pay at the outset.

I'm putting my apartment on the market right after Labor Day, as a FSBO, and frankly I would not tolerate the kind of crap you're getting from this clown. Again, don't give in to any pressure, this person has no case, legal or otherwise.

once you are clear, please let us know who this piece of garbage is. this way everyone can avoid this kind of crap.

ab_11218
less than a minute ago
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once you are clear, please let us know who this piece of garbage is. this way everyone can avoid this kind of crap.

what exactly has this person done to be called "a piece of garbage" other than try and negotiate from a strong position?

You are willing to accept this offer with a 3% commission. This is what you tell the buyer broker. If that is not acceptable then he needs to get a higher offer from the buyer to include 3% more. Most brokers who show fsbo's discuss commission prior to showing

Thanks for all the comments. We agreed on 3% commission.

how do you like having the the broker test to see if you were stupid enough to take 6%, rather than deal with you on the level?

If I were you, I would not allow the broker to attend the closing.

No, I did not state in writing in my ad that I would pay any commission

Then Don't.

I would out of principal offer this guy nothing. He is trying to play you and should be rewarded for his deceitfulness with a big zero. Very unethical.

agree

or tell the buyer: " your offer works for me and i want to accept it...but your broker thinks he deserves a 6% commission - that I never agreed to nor am I willing to pay him. this puts me in a position where i would have to add 6% to your offer to be able to accept it. if you are okay with that, let's do it. I will sign the contracts right now. if not, i think you should talk to your broker about his commission."

this is good too

Brooks2
about 10 hours ago
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No, I did not state in writing in my ad that I would pay any commission

Then Don't.

I would out of principal offer this guy nothing. He is trying to play you and should be rewarded for his deceitfulness with a big zero. Very unethical.

agree

or tell the buyer: " your offer works for me and i want to accept it...but your broker thinks he deserves a 6% commission - that I never agreed to nor am I willing to pay him. this puts me in a position where i would have to add 6% to your offer to be able to accept it. if you are okay with that, let's do it. I will sign the contracts right now. if not, i think you should talk to your broker about his commission."

this is good too

Can't you read? the OP had a discussion with the broker, where he DID agree to pay a commission (just not how much). Since his posting, they have agreed to a 6% commision.

Follow the posts, or don't comment

gcondo
about 10 hours ago
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how do you like having the the broker test to see if you were stupid enough to take 6%, rather than deal with you on the level?

If I were you, I would not allow the broker to attend the closing.

The broker doesn't represent the owner (but he is getting his money, God I love my business!), so he doesn't really have a say about whether he shows up to the closing or not.

"Can't you read? the OP had a discussion with the broker, where he DID agree to pay a commission (just not how much). Since his posting, they have agreed to a 6% commision.

Follow the posts, or don't comment"

Classic. Given that the OP clearly stated "We agreed on 3% commission" three posts prior.

An exact commission rate was not discussed with the broker until the offer was being negotiated. Since the broker produced a buyer, I expected to pay 3% or lower (depending on the offer) should the property sell through the broker. At no time was the broker's exact commission rate put in writing or even discussed. It was left "open". In all fairness, it was understood by both parties that a commission would be due if the property sold.

Now, when she demaned 6%, it was obvioulsy ridiculous and that was relayed to her. She then came back with a slightly higher offer and justified the 6% at that point. Still, I told her it was ridiculous and offered 3%. (the market standard in these cases). This broker did not market my apartment and did not do one ounce of work to be rewarded with 6% (let alone 3%). She tried to take advantage and "test the waters" to see how much she can get by holding up the deal for 3 days.

Yesterday, I told her I would not deal with this non-sense and told her I would go to her buyer and explain her behavior. At this point, she shut up an agreed to 3%.

So, yes Jim_Hones, she is a dirty peice of garbage for being sleezy and greedy.

So did you take the higher offer, or just the accept the lower one?

BTW, I would still circle back with the buyer and explain what transpired. I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out your buyer isn't willingly thinking of this person as their broker.

Higher offer with lower commission

Wow, what an ass of a broker.

Maybe don't circle back then ;).

so the broker convinced her client to raise their offer in an attempt for the broker to justify getting 6% instead of 3%? wow...wonder how the buyer would feel knowing that

Well, congratulations to you; do hope the deal closes swiftly & smoothly.

>so the broker convinced her client to raise their offer in an attempt for the broker to justify getting 6% instead of 3%? wow...wonder how the buyer would feel knowing that

Exactly.

UD, I am guessing the broker already had the higher offer or else told the buyer they needed to come up.

Agree with Inonada. Property was priced fairly and the initial offer was too low anyway. The increase in the offer was more realistic to what I was expecting.

The broker had her commission in mind the whole time and was not looking out for her client.

WestVillageSeller - where did you end up net? if you took the lower offer with no commish to pay would you have done better?

i am sure you don't need/want all the hassle - you just want to sell the place - but this whole thing stinks. you ended up enabling that broker's bad behavior. if i am getting the whole story correctly, the broker screwed you AND screwed their own "client."

jimhones, when I say do not let the broker attend the closing, I mean make the broker wait outside until the end of the closing for their check. Not only does it reduce the number of unnecessary people in the room and nonessential banter, it also serves to irritate an irritating person.

but, jimhones, I see your point about who the broker works for... /slaps self

Thanks for providing the useful information! Conversation was very informative.
fsbo in nyc