Brooklyn - Bed Stuy

I recommend NO parts of Bed-Stuy.

It's "affordable" because it's basically a toilet.

But isn't that the time to buy? More room for price appreciation as the neighborhood improves over time.

The neighborhood will *not* improve over time.

Argo:

1. the "better" parts of Bed-Stuy just north of Classon have experienced extremely sharp
price increases in recent years and, to me, make little sense economically

2. the parts that are still cheaper are really remote in terms of the lifestyle amenities
offered in Clinton Hill just south og Bed-Stuy, in Fort Greene, and probbaly in the
more southern parts of Bed-Stuy

3. I think lack of amenities, crime and seediness are also big issues
4. I wouldnt tough whayt remains on the market in that neighborhood

I honestly don't know. I think at some point though people are priced out of areas and move to more affordable places (even if less-desirable). If you are renting and your rent goes up and you can't afford the area, you move. You keep moving till you are priced out or [if you can]0 you increase your housing budget.

Does that mean Bed-Stuy will become filled with people who are priced out of nearby "better" areas, maybe. Does that mean there will be more of a demand in Bed-Stuy, maybe. Recently, I have been looking in the area. There is a good amount of renovations and new construction being done. Clearly some people find the area worth the investment.

"You either slinging crack rocks or you got a wicked jump shot."

NYC is in a bubble, fueled by people who don't necessarily make their livings here.

Right now, the median price of a New York City apartment is just over a million dollars. The median rent for a one-bedroom apartment (city-wide) is over $2700.

This, in a city where the median household income is just over $51,000.

This cannot last forever. Unless employers start tripling wages across the board for all workers in NYC, eventually, they will find they cannot afford to do business in NYC, and will relocate to cities where their workers can actually find affordable housing.

NYCMatt, I agree with what you are saying. But in the now, people are having to move to less-desirable neighborhoods because they are being priced out of their current neighborhood.

"This cannot last forever. Unless employers start tripling wages across the board for all workers in NYC, eventually, they will find they cannot afford to do business in NYC, and will relocate to cities where their workers can actually find affordable housing."

Not that you don't already know...Eventually the baby-boomers will drop out of the job force and they will need to be replaced. This could take X-Y years. Someone will replace these people, they can't work forever. These people who replace them will earn higher wages and people will replace their old jobs. The new people may want to live in the City since they can afford more and will demand more in the area.

I think, while it is a bubble, there will be a demand in the future. Manhattan has limited space and we're not expanding the islands boundaries. If you want to live close to Manhattan, you can pick closer areas in Queens, Bronx and Brooklyn. The residents already there and renting, could be priced out.

"Not that you don't already know...Eventually the baby-boomers will drop out of the job force and they will need to be replaced. This could take X-Y years. Someone will replace these people, they can't work forever. These people who replace them will earn higher wages and people will replace their old jobs. The new people may want to live in the City since they can afford more and will demand more in the area."

You clearly don't understand Corporate America, do you?

HELLO! The Baby Boomers are already being sent out to pasture (before their time). They are being replaced with 20-somethings at a fraction of their old salaries.

Salaries are not going up, they're going DOWN.

*****

"I think, while it is a bubble, there will be a demand in the future. Manhattan has limited space and we're not expanding the islands boundaries."

Very true.

But at what expense? Turning Manhattan into an exclusive gated community only for the uber-rich will not only force out "regular" people who for 300 years been the economic engine of this city, but the companies that employ them as well.

>They are being replaced with 20-somethings at a fraction of their old salaries.

Yes I've noticed, unemployment for 20 something's is very low.

>But at what expense? Turning Manhattan into an exclusive gated community only for the uber-rich will not only force out "regular" people who for 300 years been the economic engine of this city, but the companies that employ them as well.

There's always Bedford Stuyvesant.

Thank you Matt. I do get the Baby Boomers are going to pasture, I have seen it at work and I mentioned it. I think it just takes time. As for Salaries, why they may go down in terms of OVERALL size they still need to pay people to do the work

Here is what I am talking about....

John Partner at a small firm (7 lawyers) that does insurance litigation retires and someone needs to replace their productivity. The small firm hires an attorney out ("Frank") of the DA office. Frank, previously making 50K, now receives a 50K bump up to join the small firm. Since Frank now needs to be replaced at the DA, they bring someone from law school named Jane for X a year.

While John Partner was being paid 300K and they replaced him with Frank who gets 100K. Frank gets a bump and his purchase power is greater. Jane can now rent a place on her X salary. While I know John was being paid 200K more, Frank now has increased purchasing power.

I don't think Manhattan can keep up the insane prices but I think there will be a demand for property in the area and the nearby areas because of the job market.

"There's always Bedford Stuyvesant."

HAHAHAHA

"John Partner at a small firm (7 lawyers) that does insurance litigation retires and someone needs to replace their productivity. The small firm hires an attorney out ("Frank") of the DA office. Frank, previously making 50K, now receives a 50K bump up to join the small firm. Since Frank now needs to be replaced at the DA, they bring someone from law school named Jane for X a year.

While John Partner was being paid 300K and they replaced him with Frank who gets 100K. Frank gets a bump and his purchase power is greater. Jane can now rent a place on her X salary. While I know John was being paid 200K more, Frank now has increased purchasing power."

***

First of all, citing a law firm is hardly accurate as a broad-based barometer of how Corporate America works.

Second, you've just proven my point: Companies push out the older, more expensive workers, and replace them with workers making a fraction of the old salary. In your scenario, you had only ONE worker (and a student), who couldn't afford to live in NYC.

Now, after John gets pushed out, you have THREE people who can't afford NYC.

You guys know NYCMatt lives in Washington Heights, right? I guess it takes a "toilet" to know a "toilet"...

Of course it is not a broad-based barometer, it is just a small sample. I am just saying someone will need to replace the work and even if at 33% of the original cost. That someone will require housing, that someone will get housing. That someone will improve their housing as their salary improves.

I already know all that stuff. I just think that although it is a bubble there will be a demand once the market is adjusted, I think people will replace the current supply just demanding it at lower price. I am in full agreement with you, just not sure how much the bubble will pop.

>You guys know NYCMatt lives in Washington Heights, right? I guess it takes a "toilet" to know a "toilet"...

He must have moved there from somewhere worse?

@ Matt ... Try calling AMEX, CHASE, DELL, GE MONEY and see who the fuck answers your call for customer service. GHANDIS MUDAPHUKA

back to OP....

there are better parts of bed sty (won't call them good) that are already inflated. then there's the rest of bed sty, with deals on almost every corner and shootings on almost daily basis. if you're looking to invest, not live, you can definitely find some idaho/ohio young kids who'll rent the place and you'll turn a profit. they will not stay there long though. most who move there realize quickly that it was a mistake, but a new bunch of mid-westerners are just around the corner who are just as clueless as the previous bunch.

"@ Matt ... Try calling AMEX, CHASE, DELL, GE MONEY and see who the fuck answers your call for customer service. GHANDIS MUDAPHUKA"

And I'm clearly not talking about call-center employees, who were *never* in NYC to begin with.

Matt is a hoot. He lives in WASHINGTON HEIGHTS, a poster child for gentrification, but always claims other neighborhoods can and never will gentrify, even years after they clearly have.

The crime rate in Bed-stuy is WAAAAY below what it was in the 80s and 90s or even versus 10 years ago. The housing stock looks visibly nicer as it IN FACT gentrifies. Is it a sure bet it will continue? Who knows for sure, but its seems like a good bet given whats already happened in Crown Heights and Central Harlem.

@ Matt ... maybe your GUASHINGTON HEIGHTS IQ ain't understanding that those are TENS OF THOUSANDS of jobs from AMEX, CHASE , CITIBANK JUST TO NAME A FEW that have been replaced in the NEW YORK AREA BY GHANDIS.

I live is Washington Heights and it has gentrified quite a bit in the west 150s. Don't know much about the 160s/170s. In terms of Bed Sty it is a haul to Manhattan so not sure how quickly it will turn. However, I do think it's a smart buy if you want affordable space and don't mind travlling to amenities.

Matt, why don't you settle this and tell us where in Washington Heights you live.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/brooklyn/million_stuy_hits_the_real_estate_Na3aiaMtcznoXdY6xrco4N
Bed-Stuy hits the real estate big time as duplex goes for $1 million
By JENNIFER GOULD KEIL
Last Updated: 1:46 PM, July 2, 2013
Posted: 1:28 PM, July 2, 2013
Bed-Stuy has hit the big time.

A Bedford-Stuyvesant penthouse duplex just sold for more than $1 million.

The buyers are a downtown Manhattan family who traded their modest space for luxurious digs—in Brooklyn.

The loft-style two bedroom, two bath condo at 105 Lexington Avenue is a sprawling 1559 square foot space that comes with its own 600 square foot private roof deck.

It is a stylish, loft home with soaring ceilings – all in a 32 unit, four story luxury building that had once been used as a frozen food factory.

“The price is record breaking for the neighborhood,” said listing broker Alex Moroni, of Douglas Elliman.

The condo really sold for $999,999 to avoid a special “mansion tax” added to homes that sell for over $1 million, but because the buyer is also paying the full transfer tax, the sale will be recorded at $1.04 million, Moroni said.

Bed-Sty is one of the last Brooklyn brownstone neighborhoods to gentrify. Townhouses that a few years ago sold for under $1 million are now $2 million and up – and that means that the price of condos in the area are skyrocketing as well.

“This condo is special because it is a downtown, Manahttan-style loft in a brownstone Brooklyn neighborhood. It has incredible, light, views and a great deck,” Moroni said.

Bed Stuy is a very large neighborhood so to categorize it as one way is not very helpful. Bed Stuy has some of the most amazing brownstone blocks in all of Brooklyn. Some parts of Bed Stuy make Williamsburg look like a shanty town. generally speaking, the areas closest to the A and C trains are the most desirable and part of the "boom".

http://www.brownstoner.com/blog/2013/07/marble-house-in-contract-for-150k-over-ask/

" Some parts of Bed Stuy make Williamsburg look like a shanty town."

West Virginia makes Williamsburg look like a shanty town.

^^^^Good one^^^^^

"....I live is Washington Heights and it has gentrified quite a bit in the west 150s. Don't know much about the 160s/170s. In terms of Bed Sty it is a haul to Manhattan so not sure how quickly it will turn. However, I do think it's a smart buy if you want affordable space and don't mind travlling to amenities...."

Depending on where you work and play in Manhattan, WH can be farther away than BS. And the rest is true of both areas.

>Depending on where you work and play in Manhattan, WH can be farther away than BS.

How about the 10006 ZIP Code?

"Depending on where you work and play in Manhattan, WH can be farther away than BS."

Absolutely.

If you do *anything* East of Fifth on a regular basis -- or worse, Lower East Side -- half of your life will be on the subways and buses. Allow a full hour to get from 181st Street to Essex.

From Washington Heights to 10006 - 39 minutes.
From Bed Stuy to 10006 - 23 minutes.
I agree with Jason and Matt...all depends where you work in Manhattan.

yikes that long but one could take the J or z train to essex street from norther part of bed stuy..everything is relative. i don't see why people spend so much time trying to dump on other nabs

Wash Heights is ideal for commuting to:

-- Midtown West (A/1)
-- Midtown East (B/D)
-- Chelsea (A/1)
-- West Village (A/1)
-- TriBeCa (A/1)
-- Financial District (A/1)
-- Brooklyn (A)

It's a royal pain in the ass to get to all points East of Fifth (especially the Upper East Side), Queens, and most of the Bronx (except Riverdale area, where you can just continue uptown on the 1).

"Midtown East (B/D) "

"It's a royal pain in the ass to get to all points East of Fifth "

Contradictory, as Mid-town East is everything east of 5th Ave.

Anyway, if I left from my office now for "Washington Heights" google says the fastest rout would take me 38 minutes. Bed-Stuy would take me 44 minutes. From our downtown office, 38 to WH, 28 to B-S. From where I used to work, 35 to B-S, 27 minutes to WH.

Google doesn't actually take subways.

& either Jason doesn't live in 10006 or in Harlem.

ottawa did me a favor on another thread - this actually proves fairly conclusively that bed-stuy and all of harlem both have gentrified a lot faster than Washington Heights. Assuming a high correlation with an area becoming non-Hispanic whiter and gentrification.

http://www.urbanresearchmaps.org/plurality/

scroll to "Race/Ethnicity Population by Neighborhood: 2000 to 2010"

Now this is interesting. Washington Heights has been de-populating faster than any other part of Manhattan across all races per the same link, while the overall populations of Harlem and Bedstuy have grown by double digits, on top of the above. Hmmm.

Racist! It's a wonder SE doesn't grey you out.

I've heard that in Washington Heights, a lot of people are being offered/paid to move out so more employees from NY Presbyterian Hospital can move in to the neighborhood.

Bed-Stuy Market Heats Up as Home Prices Jump 24 Percent in the Second Quarter of this Year.

http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20130723/bed-stuy/bed-stuy-market-heats-up-as-home-prices-jump-24-percent

So Matt is FOS. Surprise.

Agree with alanhart

1 Arlington place in Bed Stuy, an SRO that needs a lot of work, located in a cute litlle street close to the subway, is for sale at 1.795m. I went to the open house, they already have offers.

http://www.brownstoner.com/blog/2013/07/all-cash-investors-beating-buyers-of-townhouses-in-brooklyn/

Actually, a house in that Arlington block sold for $1.7 this year. They are magnificent brownstones. If I had the money I would buy in bed Stuy for sure!! Especially in a block I all brownstones like Hancock etc.

Another house sells for $1.8M - $400k over asking.

http://www.brownstoner.com/blog/2013/08/593-jefferson-in-stuyvesant-heights-sells-for-1-8-million/

It looks like $1.8M for a brownstone in Bed Stuy is now the norm.

http://bktothefullest.blogspot.com/2013/11/baffled-by-bed-stuy-join-club-364.html

Crazy prices.
http://www.brownstoner.com/blog/2014/06/ambitious-bed-stuy-flip-196-hancock-closes-above-ask/?ic_source=ic-featured-frontpage-top

Are houses in Harlem this hot also?

TobyToby:

1. saw Hancock reported on Brick Underground
2. makes it sound as though Bed-Stuy is still sizzling

3. parts of Manhattan seem to have lost their vertical price appreciation in recent months
4. but the Fort Greene-Clinton Hill-Bed Stuy market seems to be holding up better

bed stuy has out preformed--wash hts has under-performed.

sorry matt.