Tenants Rights to Share Rental with Family Member

If you think it's a violation, call 311 to find out whether you can file a Commission on Human Rights complaint.

Or save yourself the trouble, and move to a neighborhood where you can afford a bedroom or two.

How did http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/35011-pay-brokers-fee-in-pennies?comment_id=518819 work out?

For what it's worth, we won't be residing in the apartment at the same time most of the time. It would be more like a pied-a-terre, really... does that change things?

I really thought NYC housing laws prevented landlords from expressing preferences regarding the relationship between the people who occupied their apartments.

The law is fuzzy.

For instance, I believe that if you're a landlord living in a brownstone that's three units or fewer, you have total discretion in discriminating any way you please in renting out those other two units.

Two families in 1 studio (I'ma assuming that one of you isn't a dependent of the other) is the concern you are seeing expressed.

wiivile-
It is conceivable that you not tell the landlord, RE agent, or anyone else about your father living with you until AFTER you have moved in. Once you get approved and move in, you are allowed to have your father live there as you please -- no one can tell you different. This is NYS law. However, you must also reside there as your primary residence.

Are you advocating dishonesty and falsifying documents? Sounds like it

The problem is that we only meet the income requirements when combining our incomes, so we both need to be on the lease. It's not just an issue who lives in the apartment but who will be on the lease.

They say they will only combine incomes of married couples, though, which seems to be to be unfair.

Also sounds like the op can't afford the unit by himself, nor his dad by himself "meet the combined income requirements"

So, a grown man needs dads help to afford an apt but dad doesn't earn enough to be guarantor? Maybe you did give up y your big city dreams till you can afford it.
No wonder you resent broker commissions so much. Clearly an obstacle st your income level

Unfair! Lol

Use insurent to be your guarantor then. Costs about one month rent.

im actually 19 and work in the city during the week and my dad works in the city on the weekends, whats the big deal??

ny landlords are (literally) criminally discriminating when choosing who to rent to

so we are essentially having a dialogue with a child, that makes more sense.

and they aren't "criminally discriminating". they are allowed to make a decision based on financial merit, and that is exactly what they are doing. and they can smell dishonest bullshit better than nypd detectives can. you are trying to game the system and you are immature and so in your mind you think it unfair.

move to queens, or some horrible part of Brooklyn. then move to manhattan when you can afford it.

Exactly. Landlords like to keep it simple. Why rent a studio to you two, when there're plenty of other tenants who can swing the rent without a long boring not-enough-money story?

"Are you advocating dishonesty and falsifying documents? Sounds like it"
Maybe it sounds like to to an unfamiliar, untrained person. I wasn't "advocating" anything. I was making the OP aware of a particular law. (And nowhere in the scenario I described made any mention, nor implied any need to, falsify any documents. Point to where I said this was needed/"advocated").

wiivile-
If you do not meet the minimum by yourselves for a studio, the cheapest of the apartments, then I'd suggest looking for a cheaper place/area. When you say this: "They say they will only combine incomes of married couples" this is a rule they've made up themselves, which is up to the owner; they can establish any rules they want as long as they are law-abiding. This part: "which seems to be to be unfair." is just how it is -- in fact, MOST parts of real estate are unfair. If you come across a point in the RE process that is fair, you've experienced an infrequent anomaly. :)

i dont see why a father and son needing to stay in the city during different parts of the week is ''gaming the system". its basically a pied-a-terre. we already own a house in NJ. pied-a-terres arent just for rich people.

Well, a lot of landlords don't like pied-a-terres either (as does, for example, most co-ops in NYC). So, they don't want you for that reason either.

My recommendation: find a different landlord who doesn't mind pied-a-terres, doesn't mind 2 people living in a cubicle, etc. -- basically, just a landlord who is a little more open with his/her policies. Preferably one in a less expensive area.

"They say they will only combine incomes of married couples, though, which seems to be to be unfair."

It's not "unfair" at all.

Many co-ops will not allow roommate situations where the tenants can only afford the rent with combined incomes.

"So, a grown man needs dads help to afford an apt but dad doesn't earn enough to be guarantor?"

Seriously, Dad can't afford a studio on his own?

Is he an illegal day laborer?

OP wants to hide behind the skirt of NY law, while he and his father don't want to pay taxes as full-time NY residents. Interesting.

Suggestion: Sell house in NJ; buy 1BR to share in Manhattan.

Sonya_D

about 2 hours ago

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wiivile-
It is conceivable that you not tell the landlord, RE agent, or anyone else about your father living with you until AFTER you have moved in. Once you get approved and move in, you are allowed to have your father live there as you please -- no one can tell you different. This is NYS law. However, you must also reside there as your primary residence.

if they tenants KNOW that they are going to move another person in and it is not mentioned on the application (a DOCUMENT) they are therefore FALSIFYING DOCUMENTS.

You may think your cute word play wouldn't go unnoticed, you dumb hooker, but you basically are telling the OP to lie, then move someone in.

OP a smart broker could sort this out easily. There are owners who actually don't take guarantors, but rather would have the parents be on the lease. Of course, you'll need to pony up some cash for the service. and not in fucking dimes either. btw, most brokerage commission agreements stipulate the form of acceptable payment.

Jim he can't get away with not disclosing his dad because they need their combined incomes to qualify.

NYC, there are some owners that will combine income for a guarantor and an applicant, and more importantly, put the guarantor on the lease with tenants rights. not many, but some. this would solve there issue. as would insurent, as I mentioned earlier, but then dad wouldn't have tenants rights.

wiivile

38 minutes ago

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Member since: Aug 2012

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i dont see why a father and son needing to stay in the city during different parts of the week is ''gaming the system". its basically a pied-a-terre. we already own a house in NJ. pied-a-terres arent just for rich people.

sure, perfectly acceptable in most situations. provided you qualify financially. you have yet to learn that you can't always have stuff just because you want it. learning that, and working towards your goals however, make your eventual success' that much sweeter.

"if they tenants KNOW that they are going to move another person in and it is not mentioned on the application (a DOCUMENT) they are therefore FALSIFYING DOCUMENTS."

This would be circumstantial. Who "KNOWS" what is irrelevant. For example, if the kid moves in, then the dad dies, the dad does not move in. The application says 1 person on it, just as it always did, and the kid gets a second job to afford it. Who knows, maybe he gets a roommate in a few months. Application still has 1 person on it. Roommate law evoked. Case closed. (or maybe you still think it's "falsifying documents" but now months later with a different person??). What's in the mind of a person is anyone's guess. Good luck to the landlord who takes him to court for that.

But since none of that is the case here, since the kid needs both people on the application for monetary reasons, it's irrelevant.

Like I said EARLIER, find a different landlord/property who is better suited to your needs, wiivile.

I didn't say it would hold up in court. I said it was falsifying documents. whether it's provable or not, that is what it is. and the potential for landlord/tenant court should be scary enough to give anyone who rent's pause. landlords don't need to win for it to show up on your record and get you on the blacklists.

What part of the Bronx is this in?

"a smart broker"

Good one, jimmy boy!

Alanhart, not sure if that question is directed at me. the owners I am referring to are prime manhattan, though not your luxury doorman properties. respectable enough however.

you can't not be an asshole obviously. think whatever you want, there are a lot of situations (like the op's) where a connected savvy broker can make something work and no one else can.

jimbo, oh my god, listen to yourself... If it's not provable, then how could it be "what it is"? Instance: I move into an apartment, on my own, then my family member moves in 30 days later. That's all the info the LL has. Automatically, to you, that's "falsifying documents"?? Sounds more like: "jumping to conclusions."

Something is what it is, only if it's fact and ACTUAL. Not if it's just what someone thinks.

@alanhart,
good one! ;)

You just don't get it---- it doesn't matter it is your father or your brother or your uncle or your mother-in-law who moves in with you-----the whole point about the issue is-----it has to be one person or married couple that meets the income requirements. By law, a married couple constitutes as one unit, not father and independent son. Your situation is really considered as "sharing", which a lot owners don't like it. Why they'd choose to worry about two people making the payment instead of one?

if i use insurent my dad would still be able to legally stay in the apartment right because he's an immediate family member?

would my dad*?

jim_hones10
about 8 hours ago
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>you can't not be an asshole obviously. think whatever you want, there are a lot of situations (like the op's) where a connected savvy broker can make something work and no one else can.

I believe you completely. And that's why this scenario is quite possibly representing the actions of a a bogus broker: http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/36051-broker-is-claiming-theres-a-fee-for-no-fee-apt

Why don't you lease it your name only and have your dad be a gurenteor? Problem solved.

Wii, Due to difficult eviction rules in NYC, landlords only want to rent to individuals who can easily afford it even if they lose their job. They would rather not go through the hassle of analyzing your situation. Your young age also may work against you even though no one will say so. However, they are walk up apts where the landlords can not afford to be that picky. Just offer a couple of extra months of deposit to seal the deal.

300_mercer, exactly.
wiivile-- there are plenty of apartments that will cater to your situation. This is not one of them. Move on.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/30125-suing-our-condo-board-or-any-other-bright-ideas

Walk up us another good idea.

Is English not Jason's first language? What the heck do they teach at California public universities?
What a retard.

How about (since landlords won't let my father and me on a lease) if my father and mother go on the lease? Do I have the unqualified right as their nineteen year old child to be able to stay in their apartment, even if it's not their primary residence?

I know I'm going to get eaten alive by the landlords of this forum trying to skirt the rules, but I want to know the rules.

We can afford the rent (have been paying the same rent at our current apt for the past 4 years with no difficulties) and we have excellent credit - please don't tell us to "move somewhere we can afford".

I don't believe there is any provision allowing you to live there alone without being on the lease (this being a vacancy lease and/or not an RS/RC situation). At least, I'm not aware of any.

You may be able to pay the monthly rent, but that doesn't mean you qualify to get INTO the apartment. Landlords can make up any requirements they want, as long as they are within legal limits. A standard requirement is to make 40x the rent. However, if a landlord wanted to decide that you needed 80x the rent, s/he can do so. Or 100x. This particular landlord seems to be inflexible with regard to your particular situation -- THATS why you should look elsewhere, not because "you can't afford the monthly rent."

Just stay in New Jersey.

The advice your getting here is almost entirely from non-landlords, non-brokers.

You should consider that, at 19, you're exhibiting the thought patterns of a career criminal. This would be a good opportunity for some deep self-reflection and a serious change in life trajectory. Otherwise you'll probably be sent away "to college" "across the river", as they used to say.

Just stay in New Jersey.

wiivile, are you a college student? Are there more details of your situation, what you are doing in the city and what your dad is doing in the city?

Could this streeteasy article be helpful to you?
http://ownyourhome.streeteasy.com/not-on-the-lease-legal-guide-to-the-rights-of-non-tenants/

Heh, straight from Streeteasy, explaining what jimmyboy is too dense to understand, after all his huffing and puffing, not only here, but also
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/36173-co-op-sublease-additional-roommate

>>>we have excellent credit - please don't tell us to "move somewhere we can afford".<<<

'Excellent credit' does not mean you can afford the apartment. How many units have you looked at? Have you considered finding a place up in Washington Heights or another less-expensive area? And yes, it does sound like you're trying to "game the system" which is why you've gotten so many snarky replies. As another poster correctly pointed out, married couples are financially considered as one entity. You and your father are not, unless you are currently an underage dependent. So your indignant cries of discrimination are unfounded.

Whatever, I already solved my situation.

My father and I wanted to split a studio during the week. I needed it Mon-Thurs for work/school, he needed it Fri-Sun for weekend projects. We would split the rent. Neither of us made 40x the total rent, so we would have to go on the lease together in order to qualify. The owner did not allow this, but said that married couples could go on the lease together.

So, my father and mother combined their incomes and qualified, and I, as their son, am allowed to occupy their apartment.

All's good. Thanks for your insults -- most of you are incredibly rude.

Next scene: You're all thrown out when the landlord notices that your parents don't live there, and you lose your (parents') security deposit. Tears.

Fin.

Applause.

Yeah, tons of things wrong with that:

1) Why would a landlord evict a rent-paying tenant who is causing no problems?
2) Even if he wanted to, he couldn't evict us.
3) We already explained our situation to the landlord, he didn't care, he just didn't want father-son on the lease because we would be financially independent entities, whereas my parents are not.

> we would be financially independent entities, whereas my parents are not.

That's what I said all the way above.

He's just a kid, the world is supposed to work the way HE wants it to - Whatever. Anyway, son, good, your dilemma has been solved. Best of luck to you & your family.

Rude? This is nothing. You got off easy, kid :-) Good luck to ya.