30" hallway?
Started by midtowncombo
about 12 years ago
Posts: 15
Member since: Feb 2012
Discussion about
Here's the story: We are finishing the combination of two apartments. On the final walk-through, the architect said he would never sign off on what was finally done. We need him to to sign off to get the letter of completion (or whatever document from DOB that makes the combo official). We actually did less work than what was originally proposed. But one thing the contractor did was re-direct a... [more]
Here's the story: We are finishing the combination of two apartments. On the final walk-through, the architect said he would never sign off on what was finally done. We need him to to sign off to get the letter of completion (or whatever document from DOB that makes the combo official). We actually did less work than what was originally proposed. But one thing the contractor did was re-direct a small hallway by removing a closet and walling up the original opening. This redirected hallway is 30" wide (previously it was 28" wide). The architect is saying that the hallway has to be 36". In order to create this 36" hallway, we now have to move back a wall (sheetrock and concrete), redo a sliding door, and also the new hardwood floor. In sum, painful to deal with when we thought we were essentially done. Do I just have to eat it and pay the contractor to do all that work? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. [less]
Unfortunately you do. Who else should pay for it? I do have to ask, didn't the architect make site visits? Did the contractor explain any changes should be discussed with the architect.
Thanks for responding Primer. That's what I figured.
The architect actually never made a site visit. Also the contractor said he spoke with the architect, so I assumed everything was OK. We're first time renovators.
After we do this, and the architect presumably signs off and submits paperwork to DOB, does the DOB itself come to inspect?
Thanks again.
So sorry. Yes, you *must* fix the situation.
I am stunned that the architect actually never made a site visit, and in addition, that you never demanded weekly visits to monitor the quality and correctness of the work being done!
All I can say is my condolences. Sounds like a nightmare at the end of what you thought was a complete renovation.
If the architect gave you plans and direction to make a 30" hallway he holds some responsibility for it. How you pursue that is a different story. That said, 36" minimums for hallways have to do with a lot of reasons. I don't know the particular history here but often these rules come from the "olden" days when tenements and the like would cram people into apartments with no windows or light and small cramped hallways and then the laws were later passed there were minimum stipulations. A lot of the laws were developed because of various disasters such as fires, overcrowding, gas leaks with no ventilation etc. My point is that there is a reason hallways need to be 30". Furthermore, one needs to be able to get furniture in and out. And while you may not care and could probably find some architect who will in fact sign off, the fact is that the next owner likely will care and could be at some risk (assuming there is a risk). So in end it probably makes sense to get it enlarged to proper size. One final thing is that people consider 36" halls to be cramped at well. If you are enlarging and also have the space, consider 38 or 40 or more.
The reason for 36 inch hallways is to make the place ADA compliant. I assume this is an elevator building.
I also assume the architect's plans either called for 36 inch hallways, or the contractor made a creative change that created this new hallway problem. The interesting question is why the contractor deviated *and did not tell the architect*. You can be sure of that. To save money for whom? To do less work and still charge you the same?
So you've got an inexperienced GC (general contractor) on your hands, clearly. But you're stuck with them now. That doesn't mean the work is shoddy, but I would ask your architect to go over every system with a fine tooth comb. Inspect like crazy looking for corners that were cut that you, not knowing about construction, would not be able to observe.
Given that, I would also get the names of all the subcontractors (electricians and plumbers). Follow up and make sure they are licensed, insured, and are paid off by the GC so they don't put a lien on your property. Sometimes the GC has you pay these folks directly, which I always prefer. I would check these subs out to see if they have good reputations. If not, I would not make final payment without inspecting the work myself or in your case hiring an electrician and/or plumber to inspect. You can look for obvious things like plumbing sloping the wrong way (which was done in one of my properties with multiple drains. Everything is fine for about 5 years, and then everything starts to leak. This is the kind of thing you've got to watch out for.)
The reason for this extra step is that you are not in good hands with this GC. Unfortunately. But now is the time to try to make sure all is well (and odds are it is, don't panic).
Obviously--do not pay off anybody yet.
If the architect called for 36 inch halls and the contractor got your oral OK for 30 inch and you did not check back with the architect yourself first---well, it's an expensive education.
If the contractor did it and didn't get a signed change order from you, then it's on the contractors' dime, in my opinion. If you signed the change order............you should not have done that. You didn't understand the role of an architect.
You're foolish if you are thinking in any way to sneak this past DOB, or to get an architect to risk her or his license to lie on the sign-off. Even if you do, when you go to sell you are opening yourself up to a big legal headache. If you're affluent enough to merge 2 apartments, you're worth suing down the road.
What I would do in your situation is: 1. Find out from the architect if there is a way to creatively recast the plans so as to make the space legal, with minimal work from what is already done, even if it means losing a closet or whatever. 2. I would find out who all is responsible for this mess. If you gave the contractor the go-ahead, you share responsibility with the contractor but it's mostly the contractor, methinks; not sure what a judge would think. 3. Dig up your contract with the GC and see what it says, if anything, about guaranteeing that the work is code compliant, legal, passing inspection, etc etc. 4. Even if the contract is silent on the subject of code compliant work, there may be something in New York State law you can grasp onto to sue this GC if it comes to that. I just don't know enough about contractor law, having never sued one, lucky me! But I'm sure this company is licensed. 5. Negotiate with the GC so they they will do the work at minimal charge to you. I'd seek a 70%/30% split of responsibility if I OK'd the work, with me paying 30%. Others might insist the contractor pay 100%. I could see that too. But if you are a little cooperative, you might get better quality work.
Good luck! This is rather a mess but fear not, it can be fixed. Just do the right thing, not just the selfish thing, and I think you'll be fine.
Wait. So the contractor "redirected" the hallway without first checking with and getting the green light from the architect?? Insane. You need to get to the bottom of why this became an issue. Was it something the contractor did on his own? Did you ask him to redirect the hallway? Either way, the architect should have been on board. Why wasn't he visiting the site periodically?
Regardless of what width the original hallway was, you MUST adhere to current ADA regulations in a renovation. You have no choice in this.
Thanks a lot for your thoughts. The contractor recommended this architect to us, so I assumed they'd work well together. The contractor told me he spoke with architect about the new hallway, but obviously he didn't or something was lost in the communication. But ultimately, it's my fault for being too trusting and not vigilant enough. The hallway idea sounded good to me. Live and learn - its just painful because the wall borders what was supposed to be a nursery. I want to do things by the books - I'll try to work something out with the contractor about a lower fee for the work as suggested.
Thanks again everyone.
Midtowncombo,
I am changing my mind a little. If e contractor recommended the architect and said he spoke to the architect about the hallway then I do not believe you are responsible. That's a different situation. I thought you just told the GC that you wanted it and he just did it. I think it would be fair if you get the cost from the contractor and perhaps split it with him. If you hired an architect separately then you would be to blame.
Flutisitic,
I think that might be a little overkill. The contractor might have made a mistake but you are taking liens as if this was a huge disaster. I don't think this is a reason to stop trusting your contractor if you do trust them
Update: The contractor and I met yesterday. He is mad at the architect and also mad because he has to redo this thing. I guess you can never be 100% sure, but we probably are splitting the costs of: moving the wall back 6", re-doing the sliding door, wiring in the wall for an light switch, and the hardwood floor.
I was kind of pissed at him because I had to come up with a solution for the floor. He initially told me he was going to have to rip out hardwood on both sides of the wall and then recut/replace the planks of wood on both sides of the wall so that they fit etc. But I suggested that he just rip it out on the side will have the 6" gap, cut any wood that may be sticking out from the other side, and then redo all the planks on that one side only.
Whatever. I would actually do a renovation again, but not with these guys. Ironically, we are actually overall really happy with the job the contractor did with everything else in the apartment, but I thought I was paying him so I wouldn't have to think about these things.
Midtowncombo,
I can understand your frustration, renovations are very stressful. It is so difficult to find a good contractor these days I would say if you were really happy with everything else they did I would hope you would give them another opportunity in the future. I hear horror stories on a daily basis from people who have much stories (not saying yours isn't important but it could have been so much worse)
Enjoy your new home