building at 110 East 57th Street

its not the best idea to analyze a Co-op by price per sft as size data will be estimated or for the most part, missing entirely. Our system compares coops and condos on urbandigs.com, we compare coops by Median Sale Price in past 1yr by apt bed/bath size. Its the best way to do it with size data mostly unavailable. Here take a look..granted, when u narrow down to a building only chances are you are looking at a very small sample size; in this case, 3 sales over the past 1yr but its outperforming the local nhood by 6.8%

https://urbandigs.com/acris.php?q=110+EAST+57+STREET

well, SE forum breaks links...simply go to www.urbandigs.com and type in 110 East 57 in the Building Closed Sales input. You can see the building closed sales and comparison to Midtown Center nhood there.

Does anyone have any input as to the boards financial requirements in general?

Joan Collin's apartment - (It's pretty awful) -
https://streeteasy.com/building/the-dorchester/8efg

I thought Tom Postillio and Mickey Conlon sold this 3 years ago: I know it was featured on Million Dollar Listings (Joan must have changed her mind or didn't fetch her price?

People need to understand those shows are fiction (I'd rather those shows stopped being fictional).

Needs a basic reno, and not a bad floorplan (particularly for a combination). I'd live there, maybe open up the BR adjacent to the LR to have a library. Wonder what the assessment is for?

The assessment is to compensate for loss of commercial rent downstairs and local law 11.

Per SQ FT price is indeed really low, as is the monthly maintenance (even including the assessment). I think the apartment is ~2300 Sq Ft.

Here is a similar size apartment only few blocks away, also 2300 Sq Ft
https://streeteasy.com/building/175-east-62-street-new_york/8d?similar=1
Price 100k higher and better condition (i think?)
However, maintenance is 6.8k per month (landlease building)!

Here is another one that seems to be similar in size
https://streeteasy.com/building/175-east-62-street-new_york/8d?similar=1
Priced much lower but maintenance is 4.7k

Another apartment of similar size few blocks away
https://streeteasy.com/building/350-east-57-street-new_york/15b?similar=1
2350 Sq Ft, 7.2k maintenance
price a 350k lower though.

I think I actually prefer the combo layout to the Classic 7's you linked. (note: one appears to be duped)

And needless to say, 57th & Park is a different universe from 57th & 1st.

Oh yes, sorry abut the duplicate link above, was supposed to link to this very cute apartment of similar size with 4.7k maintenance and listed at 1.8M:
https://streeteasy.com/building/333-east-57-street-new_york/43d

Also, here is another at similar price, of similar size and similar number of rooms, 10 floors higher, maintenance materially higher at 5.6k per month.
https://streeteasy.com/building/350-east-57-street-new_york/15b

Another classic 7 of similar size, 2.2M price, and 5k per month maintenance.
https://streeteasy.com/building/410-east-57-street-new_york/11a

How much is the difference in location (57 and Park vs 57 and 1st vs 63 and York etc) worth? How do people think about it? or is it just a different pool of buyers?

to 30 years, etc.: the show might be what you call "fictional," but those two real estate agents are the most successful in Manhattan and most definitely the real deal: not like the wannabes who post here ad nauseum as though they know everything about everything. Look up the truly huge multi-million dollar sales in Manhattan involving celebrities who, I would bet, wouldn't waste their time with the "agents" who huff and puff with their BS here. Mickey and Tom don't have time to waste philosophizing on this site: they're busy making multi-million dollar deals, even in this economy and with this pandemic. I just had to say it because no one else will. And yes, I'm a nobody who lives in a prewar studio apartment: go ahead and throw the book at me because I could care less.

Lmao, remember not to cross Dave and his passion for Million Dollar Listing in the future.

To davenezia,
It's interesting that you pointed out a fiction on the show, blew a gasket when I said the show is fictional, and then ranted that anyone who spends time here answering your questions is a loser.

I thought every one knows that these shows are heavily scripted. Otherwise they wouldn’t be very entertaining.

@krolik -- some good floorplans in there. Saw in NYTimes article this morning the article about Joan's apartment, and they mentioned the assessment is to make up for lack of commercial income.

So what is the location premium or discount here? People on this board seem to think very few areas in New York are "prime". Is this a subprime area? But better than further east? What is the per sq ft value difference?

@davevenezia, speaking of nobodys who live in prewar studio apartments, I met Tom Postilio when he was my neighbor at the Parc Vendome; we each had studios and he was a young performer doing Frank Sinatra impressions at the time. I remember pretty clearly how excited he was, as a young agent, to sell a fairly unremarkable new development in the West 50s... and look at what a career he built from there.

But speaking of "huge" sales in Manhattan involving celebrities, most of them are done by brokers you've never heard of; I think Adam Modlin or Alexa Lambert, to name two, would rather lose a limb than be in a TV situation where they appeared to be the stars, instead of their clients. In not-huge deals involving celebrities (I'm thinking under $5 mm here), I believe both Keith and I have worked with people you see on your TV on a pretty regular basis.

ali r.
{upstairs realty}

Was the steakhouse downstairs closed permanently?

@GGG123 Unless any change in the last 2 week, I think steakhouse is open, but limited hours serving dinner only. I recently ordered from them on Seamless.

I think of this area as kind of neutral, neither a big premium nor big discount in what I'd pay. The constant traffic on big roads like 57th is tough along the whole stretch of the road, especially now that loud car culture is once again tolerated in the city. Further east on 57th = awful tunnel traffic and farther from the Park, transit, etc.

To the criticism that nowhere is prime, to me, super prime is around the corner on Park up to about 79th, Fifth along the park to the museum (take your pick of museums), sidestreets in between, certain areas of the W Village (Bank to Charles from Waverly to Bleeker), and a smattering of other areas throughout the city (pretty blocks of GV, SoHo, TriBeCa, e.g. Commerce St or Waverly along Washington Sq Park).

Agree that I would think the area is a lot more convenient than blocks further East. However, here is another coop building in the central midtown area, only few blocks away from the Dorchester. Per Sq. Ft. prices are even lower: https://streeteasy.com/building/the-aristocrat/9e
I haven't calculated precisely, but think the apartment size is closer to 1100 Sq feet (rather than 1200 square feet advertised). Maybe I am wrong as there are a lot of closets.
9E needs a renovation, has no view, and poor light. Still I am surprised by the prices of listed and recently sold units in the building.
Perhaps the area is not particularly desirable?

I'll agree w/ George -- 57th in general is not a great street to live on, though there are some interesting buildings on 57th that I wouldn't turn my nose up at (the boards may turn their nose up at me though). Super super prime: Fifth, mid-60s to 80s (with a few buildings as exceptions); super prime Park mid-60s to 80s (again, with exceptions). Most of the side streets in the same blocks. Prime: Some buildings on Madison, & Lex (if you want to live above a store, not generally a sign of prime), and some buildings between Park & Lex (maybe even to 3rd). Can't say much about downtown other than parts of G.V. And parts of Brooklyn Heights are prime.

Are we talking about the same Lexington Ave? For most of its run, at least among the areas I frequent, it's a glorified alleyway where one finds laundromats, cheap take-away restaurants, 3* hotels, hardware stores, and back entrances. I'd rather be on 57th just off Park than somewhere actually on Lex.

Also I put "super super prime" on Fifth as starting at the Plaza (where there's also the most prime office real estate in NYC - the Avon Building and the GM Building) and working north along the stretch that includes the Sherry-Nederland, Knickerbocker, Metropolitan, etc. Perhaps one could argue that Elliot Spitzer's ownership of a rental building next to the Pierre sullies the area for blocks all around.

to front_porch: I don't know what set me off: I'm kind of ashamed, actually. But I knew Tom Postillio when he lived at the Parc Vendome as well: he didn't even begin selling real estate until 2003, and now, with his Mickey Conlon, is responsible for over $2 BILLION in residential sales. If someone has done more than that in 17 years, I'd like to tip my hat to them. And by the way, I don't know why I am promoting Tom, because when he began selling to the likes of Madonna and Gaga, and moved from his place on 57th to a spectacular penthouse on the Upper East Side, I no longer qualified to be his friend. I apologize if I offended anyone here, but I really doubt if anyone cares.

George: It's the Sherry-Netherland, not Nederland. You're too knowledgeable to make that mistake.

I overcorrected after insulting the Nederlanders' legendary cheapness a few days ago

@Dave,

Without doing the math, I think a lot of the "super-brokers," especially those who work in New Development, have probably moved $2 billion in product; Alexa Lambert, who I referenced above, moved $761 million last year.

In general, to get to $2 billion, you're talking about having eight $250 million years, which I'm sure has been accomplished by John Burger, Carrie Chiang, the Alexander Brothers, etc... and remember real estate isn't like finance; brokers can have forty-year careers, if they so desire.

That isn't to devalue the accomplishment... it's an elite club for sure. The point where I was taking issue is the binary that you're either a super-broker or a loser spending time on chat... there is a lot of room in real estate to have B-list, but quite successful, careers. That's one reason why I chose it. I'm not aiming for A-list -- I don't want to work eighty hours a week, or worry about how put together I am when I leave the house. But that doesn't mean that I don't have fascinating and accomplished clients!

But thanks for the apology ...it was not necessary but ...in a world where everyone seems to be getting more brusque by the day... quite sweet.

ali r.

P.S.: I love the time I spend on chat here...having you all as my "watercooler" is a feature of my life, not a bug.

@front_porch thank you for spending time on chat here and sharing your wisdom

@George -- yes, perhaps 'Lex' was too broad, though I did say 'some buildings'. Let's say Lex above Hunter *can be* prime (block by block basis, mostly depending on the specific building. Below Hunter: 'average'.

@George @Aaron so what's wrong with the West side? Why is it never Prime? There are museums there, an Opera House, etc...

Dear Ali: Thank you SO MUCH for your post and for making me feel included in this forum. I had no idea you are a real estate agent, but I'm sure you do very well with your kindness and attitude.

And I think I see another point: People like Tom and Mickey, I believe, care not so much about their clients as they do their status in the real estate world and how many celebrity clients they can name at cocktail parties. Wasn't it Bette Davis who said something alone the lines that whilst one climbs the ladder of greatness, they need to remember that one day they will have to climb back down and see all those they passed up?????

Krolik, the song is "just gimme Park Avenue", not "just gimme Amsterdam Avenue"

I think with the new high-end developments in the last 20 years in various parts of the city and increased popularity of downtown, the definition of prime has expanded greatly (whatever percentile cut-off one may want to use for prime). Building average price per sq ft is a good way to see if the location / building is prime. Park Avenue coops have gone down and many downtown coops have increased in price.

Wondering if Miller Samuel has done any such analysis on price per sq ft by neighborhood or zip code.

What's always been so interesting about New York City is prime is very subjective depending on who you're talking to. But I guess here, we're talking about prime as it relates to value/liquidity.

Regarding the point 300 is making, I've viewed some of these neighborhoods that have gained popularity over the recent years such as Boerum Hill, Dumbo, NoMad, LIC etc as joining part of the 'mainstream', essentially becoming established neighborhoods, no longer outliers that few people have lived in and few services exist.

Tom and Mickey were both wonderful people to do deals with, and I've also enjoyed Tom's nightclub act! However, I only know them as business acquaintances.

Even before 57th Street became 'billionaires row', there was something about it I always liked. I had a friend in the 80s who lived in a nondescript pre-war building, might have been near 6th avenue? Maybe because as a kid in the seventies Scandinavian ski shop was one of the first places to carry some of the best skateboard gear available in the Northeast!

Keith
TBG

I think one of the main things to consider when purchasing real estate is to buy quality, good liquidity. I don't just want to buy something because it's cheap relative to similar apartments in much better/stable neighborhoods. I'd rather just rent.

Keith
TBG

Who would have thought that former St Vincent's space on 12th and 7th will become a prime building? That is why Park Avenue has lost some of its former glory. People have other choices now.

I was sad to see that conversion, two of my children were born in that hospital! Location was always prime though...

I mean because of new developments like this, Park Avenue has lost some of its former glory.

Nah, I don't think Park avenue has lost any of its Glory. It's just very wealthy people have a lot more options now if Park avenue isn't their thing, or Park avenue won't have them.

My dream location would be 5th avenue in the '70s. I remember my wife catered a cocktail party for the Sterns, Hartz mountain (friends of my wife's family). They had a wonderful townhouse on 5th avenue, which I will never forget!

Now in the 80s the city was pretty rough and tumble, the ultra-rich were still there, but things were much more segmented. I like to tell the story of the time I was leaving Montrechet in Tribeca, some pretty obviously Upper East side ladies were leaving, one said to the other "don't step out onto the street", like it would be instant death! Instead they waited for their car to be pulled around and the driver to come up and escort them down to the car some 10 yards away!

Keith

Thank you for the compliments, Dave; I get by. This year has been tough because of the "pick-your-shots" nature of Pandemic work; I am trying to minimize in-person contacts, but I miss having lunch with my clients! I am trying to minimize subway travel, but I miss my office!

@Krolik, how's your purchase coming?

here's hoping we can all have a drink in the After.

ali r.
{upstairs realty}

A 3-br unit on the same floor as the actress just sold for 1.6M:
https://streeteasy.com/closing/10795175

Apparently "Waverly along Washington Sq Park" is the new Park Avenue if your yardstick is getting punched in the face by random strangers, but it seems adding "What's the frequency, Kenneth" has fallen out of fashion.
https://abc7ny.com/sucker-punch-woman-attacked-victim-speaks-out-greenwich-village/10077057

Sure is.

https://nypost.com/2020/09/22/elder-slugger-growled-thats-what-i-do-before-attack-victims-wife/

Crime has been a reality in New York City for as long as I can remember. It never went away, whether we're talking about the Beame years or the Bloomberg years. Whats the point of cherry picking random acts of violence, especially during these times when we need as much positivity as we can get. It's not like people didn't get punched in the head, stabbed or shot in New York City or any big city 10 years ago.

Keith
#pma

Just an expression of bearish view.

Ok, here are your stats. Gun violence is as bad as it's been since 2006.

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/ny-nypd-closes-book-on-2020-20210101-hbaknpnvxfflvj432oum6s3ewe-story.html

The progressive mayor and Albany have emboldened the criminal element in a way not seen since pre-Giuliani. When you remove the lid, the pot boils over.

Posting statistics based on actual data is one thing. Posting single events with scary headlines is something altogether different, in my humble opinion. Sort of National Enquirer versus NPR.

I thought the city was just fine in 2006. I've been visiting family in Brooklyn and Queens literally since 1964 when I was born. Then I lived on 6th Street and avenue C in 1982 and remained full-time in the city until 2013... I've never been mugged or attacked. How useful is that single data point? No one in my immediate family including my children who have lived in Chelsea their entire lives has been mugged or attacked...

Why not lead with the headline 'crimes down 1%, with decreases and rapes robberies and assaults'? I guess less people would read that or post that article or click on the headline.

"At the other end of the painful tally, there were decreases in rapes, robberies and assaults, although the stats showed jumps in burglaries and car thefts, officials said.

Overall crime was down slightly, by 1%. As of Dec. 27, some 94,314 felony crimes were reported in the city, 845 fewer than the year before."

@krolik -- Interesting. Lots of owners listed. I wonder if they put the entire family on the proprietary lease so the kids can inherit without too much fuss?

(I also like the broker listing a 3-br as a 'pied a terre'.)

Haha most Manhattan listings have "pied a terre" in the description no matter how large the place. Listing brokers are looking for that one person in the world with deep pockets (rather than a New Yorker looking for a home). After checking out Million Dollar Listings show, I am under the impression that with the exception of an occasional hedge fund manager, all the most expensive new construction homes go to out of state buyers or even foreigners ("investors").

I am kind of grateful, because taxes on some of those units are crazy high, and looks like all those pied a terre buyers end up subsidizing the city.

New York City crime stats: Shootings surge to levels not seen in years, NYPD says

https://abc7ny.com/new-york-city-crime-nyc-shootings-gun-violence/8495935/

People realize very quickly when they can get away with crime.

"It's not like people didn't get punched in the head, stabbed or shot in New York City or any big city 10 years ago." WOW, what a cold, stupid thing to say, even in these times. You're either jaded beyond help or just a moron. I wonder if someone like you would believe in karma?

Davenezia.. your use of words like stupid and moron are uncalled for should get you banned.

If you actually read my comment a little more thoroughly, the point was why are we only reporting on negativity when it's always existed in the city, meaning crime. I moved into Manhattan in 1982 and lived in a neighborhood that most on this board would not venture into.

Just read a little closer davenzia, and try to understand the context of what I wrote. I'm simply acknowledging that crime and violence has always been a part of New York or any major city, it's nothing new. I just simply choose not to focus on that and highlight it. I'd rather look at all the positive things happening and have been happening in this city since I first started coming here in the sixties.

I think your name calling is childish, especially when you've completely missed the fact that my post was about focusing on being positive and not just reporting things like a cheap tabloid.

Keith Burkhardt
TBG

To Selborne: I've read a lot worse than what I wrote on this forum. If you feel that way and others do, then so be it.

And to Mr. Burkhardt: I guess I'm not intelligent enough to fully understand your posts. I should not have called you a name since it offended someone, and will stop posting on this forum since I try to participate in what I consider interesting and relevant conversations, but always seem to miss the points. I moved here from San Francisco at the very start of the pandemic because of the witty and utterly fabulous vibe I've always gotten from New Yorkers, but it was obviously ill-advised. You all look down on us from the West Coast.

@keith @davev, don't fight; I need both of you as I am running out of episodes of The Crown. Seriously, the stress of Pandemic work/remote school/elderly parents without having vacations, or a New York with Broadway in it, or movie theaters, or even just getting jostled in Times Square ... a plea for you to stay by my watercooler, both of y'all please. (Though @davev's point about New Yorkers' condescension is accurate, I think... what's that meme: Californians are Nice but not Kind, while New Yorkers are Kind but not Nice?

Is it possible to get banned here?

I wrote a thread about being positive and focusing on the good that's happening. Not simply cherry picking one singular bad event. And I was called "stupid and a moron." I don't think my post was that difficult to comprehend? I just think before you use such strong language, you should do the cursory research and make sure you understand what you're reading and responding to.

I just try to behave on these/any message boards the same that I would if I was sitting across the table from you having coffee. I think good manners and good etiquette are both important in the cyber world as well as the real world.

@davenizia no big deal. You just misunderstood the context of my post as it related to a previous article that was posted.

Keith

Could it be that davenezia just harboring some resentment because everyone trashed his favorite brokers from Million Dollar Listing?

Sincere apologies to Keith, honestly. To Irschober: You missed the point. Those are NOT my favorite brokers on that show, or anywhere for that matter. They were my friends until fame made me irrelevant in their uber-glamorous world. A lovely poster made me realize that they are NOT the only power brokers in town. Hopefully the others are kinder and more inclusive.

So I saw the episode in which the brokers were selling Joan's unit, and at the end of the episode the unit was in contract. Joan did fetch her price. My guess is that the board did not approve the buyer. Back to square one.

You are correct! That's when I knew Tom Postillio, and that's what happened. Joan was traumatized to the extent that she switched to a less "dreamy" agent. I'll bet Keith or Ali could sell it in a month

Get the price right and it will sell...

1.5M because of the high maintenance and its "white brick" status????

The price for Joan's unit is under $1000 per square foot. That's good, no?
But believe the board is known to be tough. And it is a 30% down building.

I remember her agent saying that Dame Joan (no, not Dame Joan Sutherland) felt her unit was far superior to pre-war buildings because "...it has better plumbing" and therefore should fetch a greater amount of money. LOL

PS: Because there was a lot of discussion about the merits and demerits of 57th Street and I just dropped the name of one of this century's greatest opera singers, Ms. Sutherland had a GORGEOUS apartment at the Osborne at 57th and 7th (which I had the honor of seeing), right down the hall from Fran Leibowitz. They adored each other. I promise not to name drop any more; it just brought back such memories, and both of these divas loved living on 57th, which they considered the absolute center of Manhattan. I'm sure many of you would disagree. I know I do.

Interesting as Fran spent a lot of time complaining about this building on her Netflix series.

Yes, but as she says in the series, she lived there over 20 years despite all the problems. The woodwork and detailing in Sutherland's apartment was absolutely spectacular. Hers appeared to be the front part of a huge apartment that had been cut into 3; however the acoustics were such that she could sing full voice without disturbing her neighbors. Remember that it was originally built like the Dakota, with super thick walls and floors. She loved being able to cross the street to Carnegie Hall. Back then (and maybe now??) 57th Street was a great neighborhood in which to live.

The actress has some serious competition now!

This gigantic 3br on a slightly lower floor was just posted for sale for hundreds of thousands less:
https://streeteasy.com/building/the-dorchester/6cd

That does seem like very good value. Needs some clean up but looks perfectly livable.

Has everyone heard this joke?

Q. - What does Joan Collins wear behind her ears?

A - Her ankles!

Stache: Thanks for a much needed laugh! I can't wait to tell my friends, especially those who love dishing La Joan.

You're welcome. My apologies to fp for being off color.

oh, stache, I wasn't offended, but thank you for reaching out anyway.

Looks like competition had nothing on the actress - her apartment is now in contract!

How could that possibly be? If the superstars Mickey and Tom couldn't do it how could some loser without a reality TV show sell it?

It appears that the actress sold her apartment at 9% below ask for $1.9M ($785 per sq. ft.)

A new 2br posted for sale in this building, looks quite nice - more updated than the other two 2brs posted for sale in the building
https://streeteasy.com/building/the-dorchester/7e

Description states there is an ongoing assessment, so assume there are still rent shortfalls from commercial tenants.

Here is an issue for this unit: there are two other units posted for sale in the building (both are on a higher floor, and cheaper), and they have been for sale for nearly a whole year. From listing history, both other 2brs went into contract at some point, did not close, and then came back to market at same or slightly lower price.

Nice building

Hi,
Interested in buying a 2 bedroom in this building.
Pls reach out if interested.
Thanks,
Michael
michael00961@aol.com