any LEGAL Airbnb-friendly buildings?

It is rare in the better markets because a definition of 'tonier mid/downtown markets' is "contains concentrations of people who have sufficient financial resources to not rely on AirBnB as a source of income, and want their neighbors to be in the same financial condition". This is why the toniest buildings (thinking co-ops here) restrict mortgage amounts and do not permit any form of sub-letting, You could just buy a 2 BR and live within your means.

hudson, Do not waste your time in decent buildings in NYC including condo. Coops - no way.

airbnb is bad for market values. nobody wants to live in a building like that. most buildings for that reason forbid short term leases as well.

"I Don’t Want to Belong to Any Club That Will Accept Me as a Member"
- Groucho Marx

Club? I don't even want to be posting on this thread.

Riversider, are you sure that airbnb is bad for market values? I know everyone says so but has anyone done the analysis? I am not just talking about prices, I am talking about overall returns - IRR. There are lots of buildings in Manhattan that are well under 50% owner-occupied but rent on a monthly basis at 50% premiums to a year-to-year lease. I get why many buyers don't want to live in such a building but what about investors? It could be that they are making a killing.

Ximon, please go away.

wow

Hmm, only about a week after "Riversider" returns, here comes c0lumbiac0unty. C0C0, welcome back! How warm was it upstate today?

I am guessing that the answer to my first question is no?

http://ny.curbed.com/2017/2/6/14525182/airbnb-advertising-law-nyc-violators

30, given your moniker, I assume that you are aware that thousands of apartment units in New York City are legally listed for rent on airbnb? My question is strictly an economic one and should not invite a moral judgement if that is what you or others are offering. So let me ask again - if airbnb is a legal and permissible option for an apt. owner/investor, can they make a higher ROI using the service? I suspect the answer is yes although the higher management costs and fees need to be fully taken into account.

30_years will rain moral judgment down on you if he chooses. You are advocating bringing pests to New York and we simply don't need it. Stay up in C0lumbia C0unty or wherever you came from.

https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/868/new-york--ny

That answers legality.

A much more complex question is how much additional security you need for unknown people staying in someone's apartment even if the apartment owner is present. The same for additional wear and tear on the building with more suitcases being dragged around by people who do not care about the building. More traffic at odd hours resulting in noise. Tourists like to party. Busier elevators etc. How do you account for the increasing transient feel of the building? More water usage etc.

If you have a single family house, do what you want but not in a building with many other residents.

"I assume that you are aware that thousands of apartment units in New York City are legally listed for rent on airbnb? "
Actually, this is not true. Thousands of ROOMS may be listed legally there, but apartments, not so much.

http://nypost.com/2016/06/28/majority-of-citys-airbnb-rentals-last-year-were-illegal-report/

Truthfully, I do not disagree that airbnb is a "pest". I would not want to live in a building that looked the other way as owners let their apts. to short-term renters and , god-forbid, tourists!

I wa simply asking about the economics for a residential investor. But it seems clear that no one here wants to look at it that way. That's your privilege. Best of luck.

Worse than generic tourists are people from Texas.

30yrs...."If you have a single family house, do what you want but not in a building with many other residents."

..unless 51% of owners amend bylaws to allow it which i've seen, but admittedly is still rare, for the time being. i think it's a great new niche industry for an adaptive, tech-savvy mgmt company to take some inventory from slow, archaic big companies like Douglas Ellimen et al..

..just as ETF's made investor's question hedge funds' 2%/20% fees with mediocre returns, and virtual doormen have supplanted paying 75k comp to a high school kid who got the job from his uncle in the union, jackin up HOA fees.. how myopic we can be.

ximon, to answer our Q yes it's great for investors.. you're seeing this in the outer-boros in small buildings with all owners cashing in; to pretend it won't reach prime manhattan sounds like a concierge's state of denial..

re: the "bringing in pests" comment, huh? yes shall we return the whole island back to when ct wasps had a stronghold and exclude all others? or further back when the native indians ran things?

the very history of this town is one big "pest" we were England's (et the world's) outcasts.. viva la bed bugs!

Thank you hudson for the funny and light-hearted response that also provided a direct answer to my question. By the way, my reference to "pests" was referring to fieldschester using that term thinking I am "advocating bringing pests to New York".

You bring up a few important issues for the residential market in NYC especially with regards to technology which helps explain why airbnb exists in the first place. It is certainly a market in flux in part due to the changing demographics of buyers/investors. We have not nearly seen the full implications of absentee ownership but some day juicing up one's yield may become a higher priority, if it hasn't already.

Funny that co-ops are becoming more like condos and condos are becoming more like co-ops. Also, apartments are becoming smaller and smaller and the numbers of pied a terres and corporate apartments are increasing. Let's see what the next 10+ years will mean for residential real estate as an investment class.

hudsonmidtown - please attribute your quote correctly.

Also, I doubt you've seen what you say: in most buildings it takes a super majority to amend the Bylaws (which is often defines as 66%, but can also be 75% or even 90%).

Here's a recent example of a co-op taking action against a shareholder using AirBnB:
observer.com/2016/06/i-airbnbed-my-new-york-home-and-a-legal-nightmare-followed/

30yrs.. apologies, i was reading/typing quickly and missed your handle.. meant that for 300mercer...

but yes, you're correct and as i mentioned above that currently it's the exception and not the norm..for now.. but tech always supersedes slow moving gov't ala uber et al..

ximon.. "Funny that co-ops are becoming more like condos and condos are becoming more like co-ops." how perceptive, i thought i was the only one who noticed this!

hudson, I am against individuals which burden others for their selfish gains. Wait till the time real estate taxes go up on the buildings where residents have significant rental income from the AIRBnB. I am also against UBER drivers causing congestion in NYC as they continue to circle around. Yellow cabs pay for this privilege via medallion cost. The playing field between uber and yellow cabs needs to equalized.

That said, to each their own. Let us see where the dust settles.

To pile on 300_mercer's point, another negative, probably unintended, but still real consequence of short-term rentals becoming a highest-and-best-use is that it siphons off long-term housing stock. While many of us on this thread are owners, and we may thus benefit, it's not good for the city as a whole to lose entire neighborhoods that used to be destinations for new kids coming into the city. (Let's take the last few years of gentrification of Bed-Stuy as a case in point).

When I first came to the city, Park Slope and Chelsea were affordable neighborhoods (they were also much more dingy than they are now, but that's another story.) When former starter neighborhoods get too expensive, it makes the recent transplants double up, pushes them farther out, and in general makes it less desirable for them to come here -- but the city needs their input and their energy, both from an economic growth standpoint and from a cultural growth one. I have no problem with an individual owner-in-residence renting out a room (as long as they're not in my co-op) but the aggregate effect of lots of short-term rentals has not been good for NYC.

300, good point about taxes especially if airbnb-type businesses become more legitimate which I think will happen we want it or not.

And to your point, front_porch, I think we need to face the facts and the future of cities. In my opinion, most of NYC is already inaccessible to young people and there really are no "starter neighborhoods" anymore. This is because housing prices have grown faster than wages. And rather than siphoning off the housing stock, perhaps opening up apts. and rooms to short-term renters can create housing alternatives that do not currently exist and actually lower housing costs for young workers. As I said previously, I think the resi market in NYC is changing in ways we will not understand clearly for a few more years.

I think we underestimate the size of the residential investment market and if we dramatically reduce the supply of units available for short-term rental so that investors, speculators, converters etc. exit the market, the entire market could collapse. It is the hotel industry that benefits the most from anti-airbnb laws. Lowering transient room costs should be seen as a positive for the city's economy.

As a tenant, if you want to limit the types of people living in your building, your best strategy is to buy a co-op. If you are an investor, you hope for market conditions that satisfy all potential housing needs and allow for a decent return on investment. If you are both, well?

YES! Top multifamily buildings across the country are allowing their residents to rent
their units short-term on sites like Airbnb. This is a huge market to crack into. By
2020, Airbnb’s revenue is expected to top $8.5 billion, and more than half of
these rentals take place in multifamily buildings. There is absolutely money to be
made in this rapidly growing market. All types of professionals are listing their
units on Airbnb short-term to gain the flexibility needed to travel for their jobsand
earn a little extra money while they’re at it! Look into buildings that have
implemented Pillow. Pillow, is an exclusive multifamily building partner for Airbnb,
allows tenants to safely and securely rent their units with their landlord’s consent.
Pillow has more than 8,000 units enrolled across the country - many other buildings are getting on board since they close a lot more leases with this amenity. HUGE VALUE for buildings and residents.