renovating a townhouse
Started by htpm
over 7 years ago
Posts: 0
Member since: May 2018
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We are planning a renovation of a single-family, 4 floor townhouse. Almost a gut job, though not all the way, keeping some of the floors, one of the staircases. Initial estimates coming in 20% higher than we wanted so we are doing the painful task of de-scoping. We want to do the systems (no HVAC today) and excavate the cellar. What are smart strategies to reduce the cost? What can you do to... [more]
We are planning a renovation of a single-family, 4 floor townhouse. Almost a gut job, though not all the way, keeping some of the floors, one of the staircases. Initial estimates coming in 20% higher than we wanted so we are doing the painful task of de-scoping. We want to do the systems (no HVAC today) and excavate the cellar. What are smart strategies to reduce the cost? What can you do to negotiate with contractors on the fee itself? Our thought is we should prioritize the systems and excavating the cellar. Then try to do as much as possible, but maybe hold back on some of the complicated millwork, cabinetry, and nicer touches? (or is this really short sighted as a we/future buyer will not want more "basic" finishes and will discount the house a lot). Or should we do the cellar at some future point in time? Or something else...any thoughts welcome [less]
I must say, if you have more than one staircase, please keep the other one. The back stairs are so rare! Yes, I may be nostalgic but to have a back staircase to the kitchen is a wondrous thing and I would pay for that.
Uh...upon reading further, is your question primarily about HVAC? Need other experts for that, but I think you're headed in the right direction as far as priorities.
Regarding millwork...everyone and their brother can appreciate ornate millwork even if they don't want it in their house. Stripping old paint (probably lead-based = HUGE redo) is not generally what someone wants to deal with. You're that someone. I would photograph the millwork and even take a mould of it and, if it' not high on your budget list, it's at least something you can revisit after the HVAC is installed, etc. and look into quality or hell, even fake (non-wood) versions can be done well, if done correctly.
Why are you excavating the cellar? To keep up with the Russians? For real. Why? Call me crazy but wine cellars look good on tv on online, but only a rare few truly value them = waste of money for most (give the new owners a project and let them bear the cost).
Frankly, if you want to piss your money away to impress - instead of a wine cellar, set aside a space and install an elevator (the cellar would house the mechanics).
Yep. A house with 4 stories? Not many under 30 years old can afford that. Kids...groceries...general stuff. Yeah. An elevator is where I'd focus.
Good luck and please update.
Htpm, You need to look at the standards of renovation in your neighborhood and keep in mind that good contractors and various trades want to make a minimum amount of money for a townhouse reno. Structural, hoax, works comes first as does square footage expansion by excavation the cellar a couple of feet. If you are in prime Manhattan, definitely elevator. Not sure how many townhouses in Park Slope have elevators. Also depends on your needs. If 4 floors including garden, it is probably not necessary as you only have two floor to climb from parlor but with 5 floors, elevator is nice.
On the finishes, you can get nice finishes if you are not going to big Italian or German brands for kitchen. For bathroom fixtures, you do not have to get Waterworks. Complicated millwork if not original is a waste of money. Tastefully designed Bathroom, kitchen, nice master closet, good floors, and expanding the back windows will give you more bang than complicated millwork as the later is very taste specific. A good designer or architect is key.
What was your original budget per sq foot? Have you asked the contractors to help you with a little value engineering?
A townhouse is a money pit where ever you reside. I purchased a townhouse in the Bronx for $300K and have put around $500K into it doing much of the work myself. A lot of folks overpay for their home (Brooklyn cough cough) and then have insufficient funds to renovate it properly. They cut corners, introduce tenants too early which complicates the renovation, etc.
Manhattan, How do you factor in ridiculously low taxes on townhouses in BK when you say folks overpay? Say 15k vs 50-80k for a similar townhouse in Manhattan. The difference is at least worth a $1mm. If the tax caps on class 1 change, I agree that BK townhouses are significantly overpriced. In addition, labor cost for construction in BK are probably 25 percent lower due to availability of parking. I live in Manhattan, so nothing against Manhattan.
I think when the market turns townhouses in certain parts of Brooklyn are going to get hammered HARD. They have been "over flipped" (if that's even a term) and prices have gone up 500% in some cases in a relatively short period of time, with the neighborhoods still essentially being marginal.
Example:
https://streeteasy.com/building/247-hancock-street-brooklyn/house
Bought in 1986 for $142,000
Now asking $6 million.
I get the attraction of buying a Brooklyn townhouse especially those with very low taxes. I spent a summer walking through Bed-Stuy and Crown Heights a few years ago looking at listings and recent sales. Talked to a lot of locals.
Buying a townhouse for owner-occupancy is a great way to stretch your dollars. If you rent a top floor or basement unit, you can basically cover all your property expenses and put a decent dent into your mortgage payment, especially if your tenant pays their own heat, hot water or electricity.
Many of the houses I looked at had reverse mortgages on them so they were more likely to be sold when the owners got too old to live in them. And I hated it when I saw an open house for a townhouse renovated by a small contractor or flipper. Always a bad job, as cheaply done as possible. I kick myself for not pulling the trigger before prices got out of hand.
The biggest risk in these houses at today's prices might be the risk of massive tax increases, declining rental rates and higher mortgage rates which will make them far less economical especially for a young family looking for a place with room to grow.
I get the feeling these buyers are really stretching their budgets to afford these prices today. Unlike Manhattan which I assume is mostly old money being passed from one house to another.
I do agree that BK has more downside than Manhattan (other than top luxury new development at more than $3k per sq ft) as a lot of speculative money has gone in and schools and amenities have not kept up with the prices.