Sweeten on Renovation Costs...

This is the meaningful part. Plus carry plus trouble.

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What you’ll get for $300 per square foot and higher

If you are paying $300 psf or above, chances are there may be factors like layout changes or structural work, such as combining apartments. Moving walls, adding staircases, shifting gas and plumbing, and electrical rewiring all contribute to a higher per-square-foot cost, as well as add to the behind-the-scenes expenditures (more on that below). Since pricing for kitchens and baths runs higher than other rooms, more of those equal a higher price per square foot. For example, renovating a 1,000-square-foot apartment that has three bathrooms will be more expensive than an apartment of the same size with just one bathroom.

At this level and beyond, you can expect to see more extensive customization, fine finishes, and luxurious materials such as handmade tile, exotic wood grains, natural stone, and bespoke millwork details that complement the home’s architecture. You might also see custom door casements and extensive lighting details at this level. There won’t be much in the way of off-the-shelf materials, and the workmanship should be top-notch. Renovations that hit all of these notes can easily run over $500 psf.

I do not think they include architect’s and expeditor’s cost. Plus building review charges. Can be 10-20 percent of the cost quoted.

Front porch,

I hope you are well. If I can add my 2 cents.
Sweeten, who I do follow on social media is a reputable company but $100-$200 a sq ft for a full renovation? I don't think so. Not in Manhattan. Sweeten has had some project sin Manhattan but most I believe are in Queens and Brooklyn which is less expensive, typically

I think people disagree with construction costs the same way people would disagree with how much a car would cost.

Some would say a car should cost 30K while another would say a car should cost 70k. Both are right.
It depends on what the person buying the car wants. Luxury is way more, same for construction.

My clients typically spend anywhere from 400-600sq ft to renovate. Can they renovate their apt for 100sq ft? Sure, but it would be a completely different experience and result.

We do not even have to talk about the Silver linings or Rusk renovations who are probably considered the best in the city but start around $700 sq ft and go to $1200 sq ft.

For $100 a sq ft you get a low-end project with a contractor that does not have much experience, who probably uses a plumber who uses someone else's license, same for the electrician, probably does not have adequate insurance and will not help the client in the process

$200 sq ft. Same as $100 but probably better finishes

$300 Should be getting a much more professional contractor that will not only install but will help you in the process and higher end finishes, some custom work (millwork, moldings, etc)

$400-600 Vey skilled team with a project manager and site super to ensure your project runs smoothly
Excellent communication, a project done on time. Much more custom work (Millwork, moldings with reveals, higher-end materials

$600 and up:
Same as $400-$600 but much more custom millwork, stonework, every corner and wall pristine, hi gloss finishes, construction management at a different level.

Think this is my longest post ever. The bottom line is it is like anything, you get what you pay for.

And a wonderful post it is, Primer! I'm well, thank you... the Mets winning streak didn't hurt!

Front Porch,

The Mets winning didn't hurt at all, if you ever want tickets let me know.

The actual costs in Manhattan are probably double what Sweeten listed. Just starting a coop renovation and will hit $500 sft. easily, not including architects, engineers, permits, inspections, etc. It is not the materials, but the extravagant labor costs that inflate everything.

Labor is high due to the cost of living in the metro area.

In additional to cost of living, there a lack of parking and heavy traffic which increases the cost of deliveries and travel time significantly. Then there are limited working hours in the buildings and tight rules.

coming back to this thread because it's been a year since I finished my reno back in spring 2019--- honestly i think a lot of these streeteasy numbers are seriously exaggerated. i completed a gut reno all in for $75 psf. This included total rewiring of electricals, new 5" white oak hardwood flooring, new tiling in bathroom, significant plaster wall repair, gut kitchen renovation. Nothing too fancy of course, cabinets were IKEA, tiling was limited to area behind tub and bathroom floor, mid range appliances. But seriously having gone through that experience has made me question a lot of the numbers on this forum.

who did you use?

Also depends on the location. Reno in Manhattan is more expensive seems like.

@Ywriterct - What kind of insurance did your contractor have? Did you verify all the licenses and legal eligibility to work for laborers? My personal research (I have done two renos in Manhattan and multiple others in other cities) led me marvel at and lament how cheap under-the-table labor provided by undocumented workers is. Nobody who gave me estimates anywhere close to what you represent was able to pass basic due diligence regarding legal requirements for and treatment of laborers.

I think the term gut Reno no longer has any meaning.

YW, What you did was a clean up with an updated kitchen not a gut. For example, in a gut, most of the interior walls are demolished, plumbing is full redone and bathroom is likely reconfigured rather than retiled partially. And I am glad that you are happy with it.

From the article comments:

"These costs are renovation costs per square foot for construction. Design services from architects would be separate as would builder’s risk insurance. We hope that helps.

-Sweeten Stories"

If you scroll further down, you'll see comments as old as 7 years, so who knows which bits of this "2020" article have and haven't been updated.

Also curious what you mean by rewiring of electrically? Did you run new wires from the main electrical breaker to every single point in your apartment? I am guessing it wasn’t needed if you didn’t take down old walls. It is usually very easy to move a few points or add a couple of additional points connected to the same breaker.

Ywriterct,

How long did your project take? Did you have an architect? Did you have a designer? Did you skim coat the walls after they were repaired? Did you do any custom millwork? New doors? New Moldings? New HVAC? Do you have any photos of the finished work that you can share?

Full disclosure: I have been a general contractor for 20 years. If I made the huge mistake and wanted to complete a project as cheap as possible and hired the cheapest guys I could find it would cost me way more than $75.00 a sq ft.

That includes using plumbers and electricians who use other licenses as they do not have their own. That includes my company getting improper insurance which if anything happened would not cover any loss (contractors tell insurance companies that they are painters to keep costs down)
Of course I wouldn't be able to send a site super or have any project manager on job so I assume the job would take at least twice as long.

I am sure there are some companies that will come and just install whatever you purchased but thats a far cry from hiring a professional firm to take on a complete gut renovation of the complete space.

Hi, yes to answer your questions-- the renovation was in Manhattan, I filed permits for electrical, and contractors had proof of insurance. Project took largely 2-3 months, getting details completed (permit signoff etc) took longer. Correct I did not move any walls or move plumbing, but I did remove all the existing flooring and had to repair significant damage to the walls due to complete rewiring of the apartment and install new tile.

I found the contractor on thumbtack, interviewed 5 or 6 of them, and the ranges came in between 18k and 70k. I served as GC and chose the guy who offered to do carpentry/wall/tile work for ~ 20k in labor, and found a electrician willing to do the work for around 3k in labor. In terms of electrical work, yes new wiring was run from the breaker panel to every single room-- kitchen, bathroom, 3 rooms. (It was a small 2bd, about 590 sq ft). New moldings on bottom of walls only, I skipped ceiling moldings. Nothing custom. I bought materials myself, scrounged appliances here and there, assembled IKEA cabinets myself and asked carpenter to hang them up. Materials came to about just over 10k total. I'm not a professional contractor, I think I just saved a lot of money by willing to serve as GC, skimp on things like expensive lighting/custom-anything, and did some minor work myself like repairing some of the details missed by the contractors, did the kitchen and bathroom sink plumbing myself, and assembled kitchen cabinets. Honestly coordinating the contractors was very stressful and I fully understand why some people would pay more to avoid these problem.

My point in describing all of this however is that I wish someone told me while I was browsing these forums that significant work could be done for way less than the 100-350 psf estimates people are suggesting here, esp since people were saying that 100 psf was a starting estimate for JUST floors. This is simply not true.

Ywriterct,

In general, when per sq ft prices are discussed it is in realtion to full gut renovations of complete spaces. If someone talked about their bathroom renovation per sq ft pricing would not be discussed.

Significant work cannot be done for way less than 100 psf, not even close and your scope of work is far from significant.

Ywriterct,

GC's profit margin is more than 100%, so if you spend $75PSF, then an average GC would charge at least $150PSF

The general contractor resources I've seen suggest 10-20% is more typical. A small job like the one quoted should fall on the high end of the range, perhaps even up to 25-30%, but I have a hard time believing anyone can get away with 100% markup.

Not in NYC for a reno. At least percent 25 percent plus another 25 percent for admin expenses such as sales / insurance / project coordinator. Large buildings are lower.