Layout comments?

I'm curious why you feel you like the relationship between the kitchen and dining area here when just the other day you complained about almost the exact same thing in another apartment saying they should have made the opening much bigger?

I like that the layout has the classic separation of living and bedroom spaces by foyers, galleries, hallways, etc espoused by Candella, Ajello and other Prewar architects. I don't like the kitchen not just because I think it "wastes" space, but it actually makes it harder to use because it's not wide enough to put a table/island in while at the same time making it harder to use because there is no counter space on the entire side of the kitchen where the wall oven, refrigerator and freezer are. But I am also confused because the picture of the kitchen can't possibly be the same as the floor plan. As a matter of personal taste I'm not fond of the bathroom finishes.
I also think the bedrooms are on the small side for an almost $6 million unit.

I didn’t say I like the kitchen and dining room set up. I would have liked much bigger opening (how about 6-8 feet) with an option to close as needed as a compromise between completely open kitchen and walled-off “servant toiling away” kitchen.

I do agree about wasted space in the middle of the kitchen.

And I also do not like master bath marble choice as too many straight lines. But personal taste rather than any issue with design what is impeccable.

And I also do not like master bath marble choice as too many straight lines. But personal taste rather than any issue with design WHICH is impeccable.

I like kitchen set up like this where it is up to the buyer to add wide doors if they want it closed.

https://streeteasy.com/building/220-central-park-south-new_york/31a

It's hard to really say about the finish choices because I'm not sure if any of the photos are of the actual unit.

Totally agree with 30 re: kitchen. It’s basically a galley kitchen that has been made too wide (purely to remove the stigma of a galley kitchen in an expensive apartment) thereby removing the ease of use of a regular galley kitchen.

Re: 220 CPS : would be difficult to have usable pocket doors to kitchen because they would be really unwieldy- way too heavy and wide.
And swinging doors would totally disrupt the living room.

>300 - actually I’ve seen layouts in high end apartments in Singapore and Hong Kong which have a “entertainment kitchen”,with appliances, open to the living room for drinks, etc. and behind it , closed off, the “real” kitchen where the actual messy, smelly , delicious cooking is done

But of course, in those places there usually is a “servant toiling away” in the kitchen

Ph41, There are some very nice high-end sliding and/or stacking doors which slide or stack over a wall like a barn door. Checkout Rimadesio options. They are not cheap but well worth it.

The layout of this property is fine AFAIC. A home has certain functional spaces: the boiler room, the laundry room, the bathrooms, and the kitchen. All of them should have doors.

The recent trend of having two kitchens is also ridiculous.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-you-might-need-a-second-kitchen-11581742808

The best design if one has the space and wants an entertaining area is a wet bar with integrated wine bottle and glasses storage.

My favorite screed against the open plan, in favor of traditional layouts:

https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2018/05/the-curse-of-an-open-floor-plan/560561/

"The open-plan doctrine blinds homeowners to the prior benefits of traditional, defined spaces. In the past, public-private spaces like formal living rooms and parlors would have received guests, sparing the home the embarrassment of view onto its private spaces. Even the early American modernist designs still offered some of these formalities. Today’s homes are far larger than their predecessors, and yet they often boast fewer types of spaces. That tendency is only increasing."

There was an article in New York Magazine a few decades ago which talked about "Yuppies" being the group who in the1980s moved into open lofts in Soho and chopped them up into a bunch of little rooms and then in the 1990s moved to Classic 7s on the UWS and knocked all the walls down. Before prices supported doing the type of extensive renovations common these days, we would often walk into UWS units and could see the old floorplan outlined in the old flooring patterns.

Obviously they were getting to an optimal floor plan. Soho lofts didn’t have bedrooms and they added them. Prewars were too cut up and assumed that there will be a live in maid who shouldn’t be seen unless needed. Hence, the clear need to eliminate that space and the old floor visible on the floors. Open Kitchens are a reflection of society where both men and women cook while being able to keep an eye on their children rather than mostly a woman working in the kitchen in servitude.

And with 600 CFM recirculating hoods with carbon filter, cooking smell is significantly reduced - and every one is supposed to rinse their own dish before putting into the dishwasher keeping the mess limited. That said, I perfectly understand that some people want enclosed kitchen and they should have it their way. It is their home after all.

I still haven't come across a recirculating hood which I felt really worked. I also don't understand the point of buying in a Prewar building if you are going to immediately change everything Prewar about it. I remember after Daryl Hannah gut renovated a unit at The Dorilton and the Coop Board banned that type of construction (I don't know what their current policy copy is). Also, once that type of renovation has been done they tend to deprecate fast* and you'd better plan on redoing them every 10 to 15 years which is really quite a cost addition and almost no one builds that into their cost analysis.

* I'm talking about the renovation, not the unit.

Many people buy prewar for higher ceilings more ornate exterior and nicer looking windows. Original interior layouts may not be high on the list of reasons to buy prewar which has not been renovated in 50 years - smallish bathrooms and not in the right place, awkward maid’s room etc.

Great prewar apartments also have large rooms (tho not great closets) : living rooms, bedrooms, dining rooms, entry foyers which provide a proper entrance and invitation into the apartment.
Bathrooms today are large because of ADA requirements, and that larger space usually comes from space allocated to bedrooms, which have become smaller and smaller ( as in a master bedroom that’s 13x13 and 2nd and 3rd bedrooms that are 9x10.
And maid’s rooms are often incorporated into a large eat in kitchen where the kids can hang out while they do their homework and parents cook.

Great prewar apartments also have large rooms (tho not great closets) : living rooms, bedrooms, dining rooms, entry foyers which provide a proper entrance and invitation into the apartment.
Bathrooms today are large because of ADA requirements, and that larger space usually comes from space allocated to bedrooms, which have become smaller and smaller ( as in a master bedroom that’s 13x13 and 2nd and 3rd bedrooms that are 9x10.
And maid’s rooms are often incorporated into a large eat in kitchen where the kids can hang out while they do their homework and parents cook.

And a maid’s room and bath can be a very welcome additional child’s room.

Foyer is indeed useful if you can afford the extra square footage.
Original maid’s room, perhaps for a step-child (at least the child using it may feel like that) relegated behind the kitchen. Most people under 50 buying a prewar desperately want to fix the master bathroom size and expand the master closets from what I know. They buy them and change the layout if the apartment needs Reno. There are obviously older people who may like the original layout and keep it as is despite doing a full reno.

30, Miele 3496 with recirculating kit and carbon filter. Better than vented without carbon filter.
https://m.mieleusa.com/domestic/hoods-2484.htm?mat=10355940&name=DA_3496

One of the reasons an open kitchen with a recirculating hood can never compete with a closed kitchen and an exhaust is that any engineer will tell you the key to controlling smoke and odors is creating a negative pressure environment.

Nice, not great layout, with the caveats about the kitchen, but my bigger complaint is that for $5.8m, you're only getting 1 public area, and it's not all that special. Too many hallways, not enough actual public living space.

I also agree: the photos do not match the floorplan: the photo across the LR/DR shows a doorway adjacent to the exterior window -- not so in the floorplan.

I also don't like that the main guest closet is in the narrow hall space, rather than accessible directly from the entry area. Good separation of public/private (though bedroom 3 isn't great (maybe that's where you throw the guest's coats, instead of using the closet).

30, I understand your comment about negative pressure but people rarely close the kitchen door.

We close our kitchen door when cooking , usually for dinner, not breakfast or lunch

We close our kitchen door when cooking , usually for dinner, not breakfast or lunch

We close our kitchen door when cooking , usually for dinner, not breakfast or lunch

We close our kitchen door when cooking , usually for dinner, not breakfast or lunch

Hope your have cooling in your kitchen for the summer if you are cooking more than 10 minutes. Hell's kitchen otherwise.

The doors are a pair of glass paneled swinging French doors with a total opening of 5’. Large vented fairly powerful range hood. 2 A/C units as well as 10 feet of windows, so no problem!

Have never regretted giving up the maid’s room for an 11.5 X19’ eat in kitchen enjoyed every day

I think that decision is a lot easier to make on a relatively high priced unit in a good market. I think it's a lot harder to make when you have to justify the cost of renovating an 11.5' X 19' kitchen in a down market on a $700,000 purchase price.

>30 - apartment with a maid’s room for $700,000? LOL

I think he's talking about an apt with 11x19 kitchen without maids room.

Whatever - for $700,000?

https://streeteasy.com/sale/1398665

https://streeteasy.com/sale/1390515

https://streeteasy.com/sale/1311821

>30 - right, HDFC

Interesting