How much is outdoor square footage worth?

That's SO subjective. Things to consider:

Is it near a restaurant/garbage bay where there might be an influx of vermin? (negative)
Is it south-facing? (positive)
Is the terrace off the living room or the bedroom?
Is the terrace "at the bottom of a well" or does it seem more like it gets garden light?
How big is the unit, and how big is the terrace proportionally (i.e., I think a terrace off a one-bedroom that could be an "extra room" is worth more than a terrace off a two-bedroom that's sort of a "drinks space."

ali r.
upstairs realty

While I don’t have any data to support it, I think Covid has increased the value to low end usable outdoor space to more than 25 percent (usable is big enough to comfortably dine outdoors for four; min size appx 8x10).

I would agree with what 300 said. We're certainly finding more demand for homes with any kind of usable outdoor space.

As Ali said it is very subjective and every space is different. When doing an analysis of a property for a buyer, we can go from zero to up to about 50% of interior value.

NYC outdoor space is extremely subjective, and I would personally always lean towards underpricing it. In my experience, and observing usage by others.. it's almost always underutilized.

Ground floor outdoor space all sorts of problems beyond vermin & privacy (it can feel like you are in a fishbowl with everyone in your building & neighbors able to look down into your space).

When I spent a summer downtown with a backyard space it was nice, but never had any sun.. was used only at night by most of the hood. This also meant a lot of cross-neighbor noise between everyones outdoor space and it had the din of eating at a restaurant.

In my present condo in last 2 years, the complaints the board got FROM our ground floor outdoor space residents: caterpillar infestation, stray cat invasion.
Complains TO the board against the outdoor space residents: BBQ smoke, screaming kid noise, etc.

My last building had some OK outdoor spaces which were later somewhat compromised when a brownstone behind us was gut reno'd into a luxury townhouse with an array of AC compressors on the roof for all their mini splits. Silent AC for them, tons of noise for us.

Meanwhile as you go higher (10th floor+) you can have a LOT of wind noise issues.
Most higher outdoor spaces are terraces which are shaded by the terrace above most/all of the day. Therefore can't grow anything on them, sunbathe, etc.

Lastly fully exposed rooftop outdoor spaces can get staggeringly hot on even a warm day, unless you are able do heavily furnish the area with different claddings, grass, planters, etc.

The rare outdoor space worth having tends towards the ultra luxury side of things, be fairly large and at rooftop/penthouse level of a mid rise.. "you'll know it when you see it".

I always personally loved the outdoor space I had when living in Brownstones. We really utilized the backyard and enjoyed it as an escape within our own home. Loved entertaining and cooking out there and just chilling out with a book.

In my experience, I've found that common outdoor spaces seem vastly underutilized. It's definitely a niche, but every year we have a certain percentage of clients that buy their home based on the outdoor space that comes with it. We're working with a very particular couple now who are more interested in the outdoor space than the apartment.

My oldest daughter actually has an amazing peach tree in her backyard, a brownstone in Chelsea. Wish I could post a picture of it here! There's got to be over 100 peaches on it right now, and this is a North facing yard.

I have an additional criteria for a large outdoor space: it must be on the same level as the apartment- not up a flight of stairs.

Agree. Most usable outdoor space is attached to the living room.

Steve, Some good points. The utilization of outdoor space is not necessarily that high but many people just like to have the option which is why price paid is actually higher than the average utilization.

Keith, Townhouse gardens are very usable and they also provide distance from other building behind you for better light and air. The same for private roof deck.

300 - private roof decks are usually UP a FlIGHT of STAIRS!

Thanks for all comments, agree with most. The outdoor space in question is in a ground floor unit one bedroom unit (620 sq feet), off the living room and faces a common courtyard. It is quite large (around 240 sq feet). This is a sold comp which I am comparing a very similar one bedroom 4 floors higher; this one bedroom is same interior square footage and also faces the courtyard but no outdoor space. Clearly being on a higher floor and better light is good but the sold one bed on the ground floor with the terrace is clearly worth more, just trying to figure how much more since it is ground floor.

Just for some perspective on how desirable outdoor space is as noted by 300. This home received six offers after the first open house:

https://www.theburkhardtgroup.com/gallery-1-3

You're going to have to hate on Christian for the ad copy ; ) After the thread from Urban diggs that MCR posted, I'm afraid.

Keith
TBG

PH41, I hear you. But roof decks tend to be fairly large. So makes them a special beast vs outdoor space at the living space level. Of course, the outdoor deck attached to the living room the same size as the roof deck will be more valuable.

———- 300 - private roof decks are usually UP a FlIGHT of STAIRS!

300, I agree that roof terraces can be pretty big, but unless there’s a full kitchen up there, good luck carrying dinner ware, glasses, wine, liquor, and platters of food up and back down those stairs for a dinner party.

I’m sure places with full kitchens on the roof deck exist (heck there’s one that has that and a swimming pool on the roof) but they’re pretty unusual and way above my price range.

I remember there was a suit as Zeckendorf Towers because the neither the floorplans nor the renderings showed all the "mushroom caps" ventilating the commercial space on the first floor of the residential unit's outdoor spaces. I'm pretty sure similar things happened in other projects as well.

When I showed Judd Hirsch a penthouse at 315 West 23rd St even though no one ever used the crappy little common roofdeck he managed to convince himself that if he bought the unit everyone would start going up there just so they could look down on him.

>>>’m sure places with full kitchens on the roof deck exist (heck there’s one that has that and a swimming pool on the roof) but they’re pretty unusual and way above my price range.<<

But you'll still have to schelp up all your food, drinks, serve-ware, etc unless you own the kitchen (ie it's in your private unit)...

Turbo thanks for the info, that helps. It's still tough to do this without seeing it, but I do think with Covid that outdoor space popped in value, so I'd definitely count that space at 50-70% of interior sf if it sold during Covid times, otherwise 35-50%.

ali r.