ACRIS and PROPERTY SHARK

pay $10/mo and get it here.... as in insider....

I am an insider...not all of the coops always show the unit's price and/or sometimes they don't show the unit number...

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/30/realestate/30deal1.html

4th story down. There is no way you will ever get to see coop prices prior to 2003 and probably not prior to 2004 for a while.

Google the nytimes site for more background:

type the search terms followed by site:nytimes.com

The best you can do is figure out which apt it is and who the owner is by looking at each indivdual mortgage document and determine when it was purchased. If you know the year of purchase you can make a decent guess-timate of what they paid by comparing it to simialr comps from that time. Jonathan Miller has excellent data going back to 1989 for each area of the city. A great resource.

This is one argument that the big brokerages make for using them -- they have private databases of prices -- and that small neighborhood firms like mine make for using us -- it's in our institutional memory who we sold a co-op to and what we sold it for last time.

However, I'm going to go for "what does it matter?" I don't find, in negotiations, that knowing whether a seller paid $200K or $400K makes any difference, especially in a private-party sale. Let's say the storyline is that a widow has this one major asset is trying to retire to Florida on it, she wants to get as large a profit as the market will bear, so how does it help you to know if that's 200% or 300%?

ali r.
{downtown broker}

I agree with you Front_Porch. I should have been more specific with my reasons for asking. There's an apartment that I've found that's a fixer, but the story of whose selling seems to be changing. At first I was told it was an estate sell, then I was told that is was a single woman selling, now it's an elderly couple. It's an apartment that's been on the market with price cuts in a desirable building. It's been frustrating to not get honest answers, so I thought a bit more info (price paid, date purchased, owners's name) to "google" could be helpful.... I really like my broker (and by the way front_porch, I've noticed that you post a lot on streeteasy and really know your stuff); I just wish he could get a straight answer--he's told me that this particular listing broker is a bit "slippery"-though less so now with the market hitting the skids. If it is indeed an estate sale, I do think you approach the negotiations a bit differently then if it's not.... Thanks....

The sale price of the specific apartment may not be important, but relevant comps back to 2003-2004 (and counting!) are. According to case/shiller, average prices nationwide have reverted to 2003. If you expect that to happen in Manhattan sooner rather than later, you better know what those prices were, at least ballpark. The 200-300% run up of the last decade has made many people really lose sight of what prices used to be.

I disagree. If you know what a seller paid you have several advantages over not knowing:
1) You can determine how much profit the seller is expecting to make
2) YOu can figure out how motivated a seller is, if for instance, he is asking less than what he paid, he is probably feeling desperate to get out.
3) You can have an idea of how low is too low an offer.

These can help inform your decisions on what to offer, although should by no means determine them.

Of course knowing what the seller paid is helpful.

Thanks, all good thoughts. Feel free to pipe up with any other ideas or recommendations....