building at 175 East 62nd Street

yes

Your common charges are higher because of the land lease & in the future when the lease must be renegotiated your monthlies could rise precipitously. It makes no sense to me to own a structure on somebody else's land but it is done in NYC & quite common in London. Go figure!

There is only one unit available and not much turnover the last couple of years. Can't tell if it is a land lease since the 1 bedroom that closed in January had maint of 1,300, not 3,000 plus.

It's a land-lease co-op.

High-end for its time: big rooms, half-baths, wall ovens. The typical 15'x25' living room puts most new condos to shame.

Oops, see http://nyre.cul.columbia.edu/projects/view/16629#images

NWT - any info as to when the land lease is up for renewal?

One of the listings said 2059, and another said it'd just been extended to 2099. No memoranda of leases on ACRIS, which is unusual.

Thanks NWT- noticed the listing saying lease extended to 2099, but it didn't say what effect it would have on the maintenance of the apartment for sale.

Must say, some of those 7 room apartments have really nice layouts - priced fairly reasonably for the size.

Why are the common charges so high?

Anyone know about the increases in main.?

Interesting pattern here, where problematic buildings feel hits more in bad times and less when the sky isn't falling.

Six closings so far this year, after only four in 2011, one in 2010 and one in 2009.

Take the classic-seven #4D:

09/09/2008 Previously Listed by Sotheby's International Realty, Inc. at $2,950,000.
03/05/2009 Delisted by Sotheby's International Realty, Inc.. Last priced at $1,995,000.
03/13/2009 Previously Listed by Brown Harris Stevens at $1,990,000.
11/12/2009 Sale recorded for $1,600,000 (mis-recorded as #4G.)
11/19/2009 Brown Harris Stevens Listing is no longer available.
01/17/2012 Listed by Sotheby's International Realty, Inc. at $2,650,000.
05/18/2012 Listing entered contract.
08/28/2012 Sale recorded for $2,550,000.

That $950,000 could be accounted for the new kitchen and minor tarting-up, but on the other hand the maintenance went from $2,900 to $3,900 in those three years.

As an experienced NYC Broker for the last 12 years, I have sold in several Land Lease Coops. This building has, in my opinion, one of the more desirable ground leases which was renegotiated by the Coop Board prior to the reset in 2010. It has excellent terms with specified increases until 2020, then its pegged to the CPI for the next 10 year period until 2030. At which time the land will be reassessed and the ground rent will be based off a 6% value on the assessed value. In summary, good long term protection. With negotiation the ground lease was extended to 2099. This coop has excellent room sizes and an amazing location! Any questions please contact me directly at wmartin@elliman.com

What was the land value in 2010 and what is annual rent currently?

And was ground lease payment reset at 6% in 2010?

Monthly maintenance is on the high side but prices seem to reflect it. If I was a buyer, I would rely on recent sales in this building only.

What is risky for some is an opportunity for others. In theory, rental yields should be higher than a fee simple building but sublet policy is unknown. Watch out for 3% flip tax payable by buyer.

6 percent of assessed value is a killer in the world where the cap rates are 3 percent. If the land is assessed at $500 per build able sq ft, for 1000 sq ft, on $500k value, you would be paying $30k per year ($2.5 per sq ft per month) in land rent. Essentially maintenance is double of what it should be. Currently land rent seems to be 50 percent of the above computations given appx $1 extra per month per sq ft in excess maintenance. Crazy!!

Will appreciate comments from experts who have first hand expertise in / knowledge of land assessed value for land lease buildings. I am just going by average selling per build able sales ft price of land in Manhattan.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/land-deal-pushes-out-some-at-manhattans-trump-plaza-1415846349
Trump plaza cost 800 per sq ft to owners to buy the land. 6 percent rent of that will kill people.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/land-deal-pushes-out-some-at-manhattans-trump-plaza-1415846349
Trump plaza cost 800 per sq ft to owners to buy the land. 6 percent rent of that will kill people.

What I remember of such land leases is that the lease often has very specific requirements for how land value is calculated. Its not necessarily based on the value of the land as vacant and unencumbered. Fee owner hires one appraiser, leasehold owner hires another appraiser and if the difference in appraised value is over a certain %, a third appraiser may be hired. Then there are rights to take negotiations to a mediator which is very common.

Also, rent may depend on whether fee owner owns the land or the land and building.

Also, the lease may require fee owner to pay certain expenses like insurance or land taxes. When all is said and done, resultant ground rent payment might end up being less than 6%. At least, that's my experience.

6 percent inflation indexed seems crazy in today’s world. What do you think of the Trump tower land purchase price? Why should the assessed value be any different assuming substantially the same location?

6% was considered reasonable when buildings were trading at 10% cap rates. Now its too high. But given this lease which appears on the surface to be pretty stable, the only important factor is how to calculate adjustment to units pries. That's why I think its better to rely only on sales in building.

Trump Plaza might have a similar land value, at least on a per unit basis, but like I said previously, lots of factors to consider. Not sure how assessor calculates land value but assessor usually wants building value to be as high as possible.

Trump Plaza at $825 per FAR sounds stupid high but I guess they had condo by the proverbial you know whats. Also, may have wanted to be reimbursed for capital gains tax land owner will need to pay.

May be true but it seems the discount for land leases should be in the $600-1000 per sq ft range as at some point of time there is market reset and ridiculous percentage rent on the reset value.

Anyone know if this is a non-smoking building and whether there is a cap on the size of a dog?

Decor porn -

https://streeteasy.com/building/175-east-62-street-new_york/14a

Just fabulous! Perfect! I love a good period apartment, well maintained.

Other than fixing the radiator cover that's taped in place, I could move in tomorrow. Wonder if for the price they'd include all the current furnishings. I will have to find my fringe sleeve jacket and arrange a visit (will drop by Landmarks to submit an application as well).

I know "decor porn" is a term of art, but now that I've seen it I can't help but think 14A would make an amazing set on which to shoot a certain genre of grownup entertainment.

I have a hard time valuing the underlying property, though. For the same $6400 you'd pay in monthlies, you can rent a similar apartment free & clear. No need to pay a million bucks for the privilege.