Ordinary landlord conduct?

I think you need to stop with the eyebrow-raising, eyerolling, & mental note-taking, and speak up! There are landlords that will push to see what they can get away with at your expense. Push back & let them know that you know your rights and will fight for them.

Exactly how is it that the cost of the windows have been passed along to you? Just because they said so?

Wow, you've been taken advantage of.

If the fuel surcharge is not in your lease, you're not obligated to pay it.

The landlord cannot make you pay for his maintenance or repairs. He can take it our of your deposit if he can prove you did it, though.

Your lease should say something about access, usually 24 hour notice is required.

Landlord is aware that I know my rights at this point. Fight will be over whether landlord withholds cost of windows from my security deposit. We are in the process of working through this dispute, and I am not worried about the ultimate outcome; I will sue him to get the money back if he takes that path, but I am annoyed that I have to take the time to deal with this at all and wonder whether legal disputes of this nature are par for the course with all New York landlords? Alternatively, do most people just stop paying rent once the amount of rent due for remaining term of the their lease equals the amount of their security deposit? (Note, I am not asking whether it is legal to take this course of action, I am simply asking if withholding rent is industry practice/customary in New York).

MOVE
how ever much deposit you left is when YOU stop paying rent.
3 month deposit=no rent payments last 3 months. MOVE
You landlord sounds like a lowlife. Your landlord sounds like he/she knows the costs of battle (to you) and is betting that your a pussy or you've calculated the time and expence of battle and decided it cheaper to give in. The amounts above would indicate that your landlord has calculated those costs as well and is keeping the charges in the range of too much trouble for you to battle. TURN THE TABLES. Leave the deposit so that it covers all due rent, leave a VERY clean apartment and photo/video document the condition upon vacating and let the landlord spend $$$ chasing you.
FLY IN THE OINTMENT
If a future landlord wants past landlord refrences you will have to omit this landlord and fill the time period with a fib.

agree with falco, but be very careful to have documentation of all--a scumbag like this may well sell your "debt" to some scumbag collection agency, who might make your life difficult--also to move, you may need a letter of reference from current LL, so tread a bit carefully, tho current LL have proven to be scum who will likely force you to sue if you play strictly by the rules

btw---i rent now and have rented at other times in the past and have never experieinced the crap you have

All - this was the type of feedback I was looking for, and I appreciate the reality check that all New York landlords are not like this. I will not resort to self-help, as that is not my style, though I note that I make no judgment of that style and were I ever on a jury of someone who resorted to self-help in a similar context, I would not fault them (again, no legal opinion here as to whether such conduct is legally proper or not). I will continue with my landlord in a professional manner, offering to renew my lease at a 20% rent reduction with an agreement that there shall be no further discussion of the cost of the window replacement. I do not expect my landlord to accept this because there also appears to be an odd machismo dynamic at play with him that I have encountered in only a single previous negotiation, and that negotiation took place over 20 years ago while I was negotiating my very first lease in a country far, far away. That landlord's conduct made some sense to me given cultural differences and my young age, but this one utterly bemuses me. I have to say that I think this was not a bad experience for me to have because while I sometimes represent individuals who have been mistreated, I had lost all sense of what it feels like to be in their shoes. I just look at my landlord and think - how odd; is he serious? Annoying.

I need to know a little more before I can comment. Who pays electric, you or landlord?

Don't worry about him being able to withold the cost of the windows. There are 2 possibilities: your landlord is crazy, or he's crazy like a fox. If he's crazy, you will have to sue him in small court and will win easily. If he's crazy like a fox, the minute you stand up for yourself he'll mail you a check (because he knows he doesn't have a leg to stand on.)
I can't believe you paid him an extra $200 that's not on your lease. He must think you're soft.

If you're feeling a bit mischievious, you might want to post something in the elevator or at the mailboxes (anywhere that other tenants would see it) asking if tenants are paying a $200 per month "fuel surcharge." It's possible that the landlord takes a shot at adding extras like this and sometimes he wins, sometimes he loses. A landlord like that deserves the grief that a little cross-apartment communication might incite.

No, this is not the norm.

The best way to deal with an a-hole is to avoid dealing with an a-hole. Since that ship has already sailed, the best way to deal with an a-hole is to be an a-hole back.

Good thing inonada is abbreviating his curses, since earlier he was using the 'f' bomb left and right when challenged about his bait and switch and fantom listings.

You can't withhold rent, but in some states i've lived in, you could escrow rent pending resolution of a dispute. Simply put, i'd have an attorney draft a letter telling the landlord he is in breach of the lease contract, and that you'll be escrowing your rent if these various breaches aren't resolved.

In another state, i once had a ridiculous landlord make a total mockery of our lease by doing whatever she pleased. I got a very good attorney, started escrowing my rent, and got everything i wanted. About the only adverse thing that happened is that the landlord's attorney put a flyer on my door threatening eviction. However, once the LL's attorney knows YOU have an attorney, he is obligated to work through your attorney not harass you directly. The laws are pretty renter-friendly in New York, and you can probably drag this out for 12 months or so without your LL getting a penny from you (eventually you'll need to make good on what you LEGALLY owe under the lease -- but not the B.S. charges). Also, he'll be strongly incented to reach an agreement with you over security deposit.

So **** him. Stop being so ...mid-western, and fight back!

When you say 'landlord', is your landord an individual or a corporation of some sort?

I walked away out of principle from one of these big NY landlord corporations that own multiple buildings - like you said it ultimately cost me more money to move than to stay, but I did so rather than continue giving my money to such scum.

front_porch - I pay the utilities separate and in addition to the "fuel surcharge."

maly - I think he is crazy like a fox and thinks I am soft; time will tell.

Eric_14 - I like the suggestion, but I am not the mischievous type, and the building does not lend itself to tenant organization.

inonada - as always, thank you for your input.

huntersburg - Why do you hate inonada? I actually don't want to know, but I appreciate inonada's input and never understand the off-topic harassment that frequently appears on these boards.

Al_Assad - sound advice, thank you.

Matsui - individual.

multicity, sorry, you had to suffer. Your landlord behavior is completely ridiculous. Just have a convo with him that you are willing to spend any amount of money to make him pay and suffer. You have to assume that you do not care about landlord reference for your next rental - you can even get around it by signing a lease which starts in a few months and then really stick it to the landlord by not paying the rent and changing your locks immediately unless he makes you whole. You will have to put your request for refund in writing should you end up in small claims court. You can also tell the landlord that you are not vacating any time soon till the time he pays you back the money for fuel surcharge, windows and apology. Before doing all this, just make sure that he does not have any mob connection - use the stereotypes you know.

multicityresident - how was inonada's input valuable here?
On this thread at least, he didn't provide any misleading advice. But quite often, he provides plenty of misleading advice to people who don't know better, and to me, that's just plain wrong.

P.S. to front_porch: I realize I did not answer your question as specifically as you had asked it, and I want to do so now because your asking a question that is so pertinent to the analysis suggests you understand what the landlord might argue here, and I would love your take from a factual industry practice perspective for a variety of reasons. I pay the electric, separate and in addition to the fuel surcharge. Upon first receiving the bill for electric (complete with meter reading and all) with then a separate bill for a $200 "fuel surcharge" on top of this, I sent a written inquiry to the landlord seeking further detail. All I received back was a memo from 2009 that came from the building's management company stating that common charges had gone up such that effective April 1, 2009, the building management was adding a $200 monthly "fuel surcharge" to each condo owner's common charges.

Matsui - I also can understand why you might wonder if my landlord is an organization; my landlord is an individual who has a longstanding personal relationship with the resident manager and is a former president of the building's condo board. He lives in another unit in the building. The majority of the other residents in the building are not tenants, but rather individual condo owners.

mcr...this is good ... individual condo owner, with an extra apt he is renting, will dread the hassle you bring him/her as much as you will dread being confrontational, paying for a lawyer, going to small claims court. My guess is you push back hard, finally, and he/she will cave quickly.

When did your lease begin? Before or after Apr 09?

should have spined up with item 1.

lease began feb 2011

Now I get it, the condo owner is looking to suck all your money out of you to cover the costs of his investor apartment.

First of all your rent has nothing to do with Condo common charges. You have a lease with a unit owner and you agreed on a set fixed rent. Unless your lease states that if the condo assesses a fuel charge they will pass it on to you, then it makes absolutely no difference that he has a surcharge. He is just as everyone else already stated taking advantage of you.

The windows are the same thing which actually have a few issues. First there is no way you are responsible for a window unless you somehow caused the damage and broke it. Second you need to find out who covers windows in the condo. A lot of condo's have in their offering plans that the condo actually is responsible for the exterior of the building which includes the windows some of the time. So in this case he may not even be responsible for covering the costs.

I also think you should not pay rent for the remaining months that the security deposit would cover. It sounds as if you give him everything he asks he will probably keep the security deposit because nothing he has done so far seems to say he cares what is fair or right. While the argument could be made you owe this money and should honor the lease, the landlord has not and it is not worth the expense to hire an attorney to put it in escrow.

Multicityresident, do you have a copy of the lease you signed? The standard Condo lease forms, unlike straight rental building forms, do usually have a clause about "added rent" which indicates that any additional increase in common charges or assessments can be added into the base rent if they arise, and the tenant would have to pay them. It is a terrible clause and usually I advise tenants when i represent them to cross it out. Not a lot of condo owners actually enforce it and pass those costs along, but if it states in the lease that they can then it is not so simple.

Dax , see the date of the lease and the date the surcharge was initiated by the condo.

Mike v - thank you for the input.

nycbrokerdax: Likewise thank you for your input. Re the clause you note, I am aware of that clause and my lease contains it; however, that clause expressly states that it applies to increase in common charges imposed after execution of the lease. In this case, lease was signed mid-January of 2011 and landlord sent a memo about increase in common charges that went into effect April 1, 2009. I actually am not worried about the strict legal case or analysis. I am a lawyer and understand the various arguments that my landlord might make; the only part I am missing is factual detail about what is actually industry practice in New York. Your post, as well as those before you, are helping me get a handle on this, and I appreciate all input. Many thanks.

I am beginning to wonder if this is all fake like the Rental Bible poster. The scenarios are absurd.

If you live in the same building why in the world haven't you made arrangements to meet with your landlord. Sit don with him have a cup of coffee and try to iron your issues out. I believe most people are fair and reasonable.

Huntersburg - not sure what Rental Bible poster is about, but were I to fake a scenario, I would at least try to make it interesting and creative; I find the one I am living tedious and boring.

renterjoey - Tried and failed. I get no reply to phone calls. The only telephone number I have goes to his office, and I have spoken with his assistant on more than one occasion. His assistant is courteous and professional and assures me that the gentleman in question is in receipt of my message(s). As a litigator by profession, I often wonder how the cases that arrive at my desk devolved into litigation; the court system is filled with cases where at least one of the parties is neither fair nor reasonable.

mcr, thanks for being patient for my reply. I've currently got limited computer access.

I had thought that you were in a townhouse with a corporate landlord for some reason.

anyway, the reason I asked about electricity was that I was trying to get a mental picture of how modern the building was. If you pay electricity, well, then the building is modern enough to be submetered.

***

So to a landlord (and I'm one, and have been for years) broken windows matter for three reasons: 1) potential for unauthorized entry 2) create higher heating coats 3) potential for leaks that can escalate v.v. quickly.

So I don't think needing fairly spur-of-the-moment access to deal with window replacement is wrong. A broken window could, in someone's eyes, be an emergency.

However, it is not standard practice to bill tenants for this sort of thing -- and we've established, however elliptically, that these are probably not 1905 landmarked windows.

Moreover, if I remember correctly, you're paying five-figures. So sneaking in a $200 surcharge at the last minute is certainly a number of things, but let's focus on the fact that, relative to your rent, it's petty.

***
I think you have a personality mismatch here.

However, my instincts as a negotiator are that all the issues are out on the table already. I would try for a quick real-time talk with the LL ("please leave him a message that we got the renewal lease and need to talk on the phone for ten mins") before you bail. I would say "industry practice' here is for you to pushback, and him for to give you some but not all of your requested concessions.

Just my two cents. I can talk more off-board if you want.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

Standard practice in NYC is to strike out the Added Rent clause. A good LL will have it crossed out before sending it to you. A scumbag will send it to you w/o crossing it out, but will instantly cross it out upon request. Obviously it doesn't bind here for the reason you mention.

>A scumbag will send it to you w/o crossing it out, but will instantly cross it out upon request.

Another person on the "shitlist"?

Front_porch: Glad to hear that NY no different than any other market, and agree that I should not let a personality mismatch cloud the big picture; thank your for weighing in. As previously noted, I value your input.

inonada: As always - thank you for your input; I value it on all subjects.

huntersburg: Why? I have seen nothing crazy or unreasonable in either your or Inonada's posts - can you not harass him elsewhere?

All: Thank you for providing input on the subject. I am now signing off the discussion

https://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/26884-fuel-surcharge

I can't believe this has been an issue for 8+ months.

I find it strange that you are a lawyer and

1) are subject to such harrassment by your landlord (I am assuming he knows you are a lawyer)
2) Put up with such harrasment from your landord and
3) are even considering putting up with it longer.

What hope then for the rest of us?

First of all, do not withhold rent. They will send you to collections and it will affect your credit. Second, even if you think you've 'established boundaries' do not be fooled into thinking things will improve. I lived under a slum lord for 6 years and no matter how hard I tried, I never got them to stop treating me like dirt.

Second, I think you should open your eyes a little to the rental situation in this city. We have a 1% vacancy rate (less depending on your neighborhood) and rents are increasing to the maximum amount allowable by law everywhere. Last month I broke my lease after only living in the apartment for 6 months and the landlord listed my apartment for 20% more than I was paying and got it right away. My friends who have really nice apartments are fighting against 15-20% increases and losing. So if you think you're going to save money by moving, that's only true if you are willing to seriously downgrade location or apartment.

Third, I do not know why you are even putting up with this! Like @matsui said, if you are taking it up the a$$ and you're a lawyer, what hope is there for the rest of us? You don't have to let your management company into your apartment and they cannot make you pay for something like a window unless you clearly smashed a chair through it. Regular updates are not your responsibility, yes you have to buy new lightbulbs but anything other than that is paid for the person collecting your rent.

Not just any lawyer, but a litigator who should be comfortable with conflict, and one who pays $10750 per month just for herself and two small dogs.

Are we renting from the same landlord....although he has deducted everything like a cracked window that a previous tenants shattered not even cracked.....we moved in on the 15th living on a month to month lease n he asks for the rent on the 1st, but I know the law too not ALL of it but in the process at least for NYS tenants. NYS law with a month to month lease says that you PAY ON THE DATE OF MOVE IN, NOT WHAT HE PUTS ON THE LEASE. We didn't move in due to the lack of HIM not putting a new window in, we are not going to move our stuff in till HE puts in a new window, esp with it not being our problem.
I hate this man with a passion, the only guys he likes is the guy that kisses his A$$ and doesn't put up a fight. Right now in MY town they r going around, city mayor and building inspector and weeding through all the SLUM-LORDS, making them get up to code and possibly stop them from being slum. I hate that if they decide to condemn the place that the tenants are out on their A$$ looking for a new place when it was the landlord/building managers fault in the first place it got ran down. My building manager was the owner then he had to get someone to take a loan out and they own more of the building now and even he is upset with the property/building manager knowing he is keeping up with anything. When we DO say something we don't get a response back or an OK....but nothing comes through. There are squirrels invading the home which it can go up in flames, he did some work but they find a way back in doing a half a$$ed job in the first place. THERE ARE NO VENTS ABOVE OUR STOVES ALL 6 APTS.
We are getting charged an EXTRA $115 a month for a "fuel surcharge" as well...this happened this year randomly with a notice in the mail stating it would start in the winter months. I have not used heat since MAR counted all the days and recorded when we DIDN'T use the heat. I explained to him that we should be able to discuss the fact of non usage of heat in March and April.....n i haven't heard from him since/at all. I discussed this with another guy that is a Landlord not property manager and he stated that NYS is now charging landlords a fuel surcharge but could not tell me whether or not I COULD SIMPLY NOT PAY THE MONEY DUE TO THE NON USAGE OR FOR THE RANDOMNESS in how the letter came. I feel another reason we are getting charged now is because last year the apartments below us would come upstairs and knock on our door at 6 7 and 8 am waking me to turn the heat UP cause they were cold. I explained to them it was on 74 way above the legal limit of 68 well REQUIRED, and if the box was locked she would be screwed....but i turned it up for her anyhow. Sometimes to 80 and now this year we are ALL of a sudden getting charged. Which we and the apartments above had to open windows we WERE SO HOT!!! OH BY THE WAY DID I MENTION WE ONLY HAVE ONE THERMOSTAT FOR THE WHOLE BUILDING AND I AM THE LUCKY ONE THAT HAS IT, GETTING KNOCKS, TEXTS AND RANDOM CALLS TELLING ME I NEED TO TURN IT UP AND DOWN AT ALL DIFFERENT TIMES OF THE DAY.
I apologize for the long post but I am not a lawyer and idk all the rules regul. and so on.....but I know that with this fuel surcharge even though it is for all NYS landlords....I know in my heart that maybe you can tell me if I am wrong but if you don't use that heat that is less of a surcharge then they will get next time seeing as though they will be sending less fuel from non-usage....but then again a surcharge is a surcharge.....maybe idk what im talking about and I NEED HELP.....I AM FRUSTRATED. I pay for all other bills BUT hot water, heat and hot water was included when I first moved in then he said this fuel surcharge is attached now.
I have been living here for going on 3 years in June of this year 2012. I have been looking for another place but I don't have the time to do it being a PCA worker having to have all your attention on your clients movements, and a dog (pitbull) is in our way most times here in NY. he creates NO damage, no potty in the house is 5 and VERY well trained, but he creates a hassle for us getting another place " with their reputations, which is BULL i must say". I have never met a more loving dog and its all in the owner and how you train. ANYWAYS, my bf sits at home all day and he does it when he FEELS like it not being that predominate person like me.
WHOLE THING IS FRUSTRATING AND I NEED HELP....PLEASE HELP....I DON'T FEEL LIKE THIS SURCHARGE SHOULD BE PAID FOR MARCH AND APRIL....N AM I BEING PETTY, OTHER APTS ALSO HAVE THIS SURCHARGE INCLUDED IN THEIR RENT THE ONLY PEOPLE IT IS ADDED TO IS THE BOTTOM 2 APTS SAYING THEY ARE COLD AND US WITH THE THERMOSTAT. BUT ALL THE BILLS/RENT SLIPS SAY THAT THEY ARE NOT ADDED BUT ANOTHER APT TOLD ME OTHERWISE. I HATE THIS PLACE, I HATE THIS MAN, BUT I LOVE THE APT AND THE LOCATION ITS CLOSE TO WORK ESP W/ GAS PRICES AND ECONOMY, AND I CAN WALK TO MY MAIN OFFICE. IDK WHAT TO DO HELP!!!!!

1 year update?...

The old apartment, did you seek help on streeteasy when you were renting it?

I did seek help on SE for old apartment, but my initial search was in Lenox Hill. I had actually settled on one place, but changed my mind at the very last minute to be within true walking distance to key destination, so I ultimately made a foolish and hasty decision on the first place without consulting Streeteasy. The interesting thing is that when I was first thinking about switching buildings about 10 months into tenancy, I asked SE community about building I was in (without revealing that I was living there) and another building, and nobody on SE had any information about the building I was in. Not surprising because the bulk of the tenants are international and the listings at that time were all through building's leasing agent - not broker community. I should have known something was up when none of our friends had heard of the building either, but then again, none of our friends live in Midtown East and could not understand why we would ever want to live there. Live and learn. I still like Midtown East, and all the more so now that I am in a good building. Very embarrassed to have fallen prey to the first building, but not a big deal in the overall scheme of things.

My initial inquiry - http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/24153-how-much-and-how-to-find

Oh yes, I remember, that's when C0C0 made fun of you for not putting central vac on your wish list.

It is funny to read my initial SE post above and see that even then COCO was harassing innocent users who were simply seeking basic real estate advice. He did not register with me at that time; he only registered when he started stalking me in earnest. I now attribute his bizarre stalking to his thinking that I was one of your creations. Comme c'est curieux.

One of my creations? C0C0 has a wild imagination. Anyone who disagrees with him or apt23 must only be one person.

Your landlord is taking advantage of you. Sorry for the brevity, but others have covered a lot of important points.

Never mind... old thread, dead thread, why dig it back up?

1OneWon:
For the sake of the streeteasy community.

Your landlord was taking advantage of you but sounds like you let him win without a fight. Something like that happened to my cousin, although for a lot less money, and I never understood why she didn't take her landlord to small claims court at the very least. Unless you're freelancing and earning a day rate, it would be worth it to take a day or two off to fight for money that's basically been stolen from you.

As disclosed some 2.5 years ago, NYCNovice = Multicityresident=Foolishrenter. The landlord who was described in this post was Beekman Internationa and the building was The Beekman Regent.

And, as I have said previously elsewhere on Streeteasy, I am happy for anyone who has a positive experience at The Beekman Regent or anywhere else; if my experience was an isolated one, so much the better.

http://streeteasy.com/talk/discussion/31875-seeking-tenant-side-attorney-recommendation